Lapua does not recommend re-annealing?

[DngBat7]

Hey, you left out those of us that are here trying to decipher the opinions, techniques, results and experiences of those that may or may not anneal. I'm not here to argue, but I guess in a way I am arguing with you the point that many of us, myself included are not arguing.

I just hope nobody in this thread has the codes to the secondary football.

 

[TC260]

but the definition that metallurgists use is different than what the typical shooter is doing or wants, and that is the source of some confusion. No one that I know of wants his case necks to be fully annealed in the sense that metallurgists use the word. We are doing something different and have appropriated that word to describe what is being done, even though it it not technically correct.

I agree about the confusion. IMO, it's shooters using improper terminology that keeps people confused. One of the materials books I had in school separates them as partial annealing or process annealing and full annealing. Personally I think "recovery annealing" is the best term, because that describes the phase of annealing it's related to.

FWIW, recovery annealing is clearly described in that old paper rifle woman has posted a few times. The information is out there, it's just not often packaged up in a way that's easy to read.

 

[PatMiles]

Never thought about brass cost and time involved. I enjoy the crap out of every aspect it takes to make accurate ammo from turning necks with the Benchrite to sitting in front of the TV with the AMP.. The cost of making it enjoyable for me is something i have to accept or i can find another hobby. Shooting SR & LR BR will never be a $ making option for me. But the enjoyment of the company i keep and the time & money involved and every now and then shooting good is priceless to me.

Regards
Rick

Dilly dilly!

 

[Marksman63]

What should they say? Please do annealing thus you will not buy them anymore?

 

[Mozella]

Just curious, how much brass can you buy for the price to purchase and operate an annealing machine ? How much time is spent annealing ?

For me, about 124 Lapua cases is the same as the cost of my automatic precision annealing machine. Operating costs are very low. I can't remember the last time I changed the gas bottle and the electricity is so cheap it's not worth calculating. And for annealing time, I prefer to measure the EXTRA time to anneal brass. For me the extra time involved is about 4 minutes to anneal 300 rounds. Impossible you say.............. no, actually it's easy. Here's how:

It takes me about one minute to get my machine off the shelf, plug it in, and connect the gas. I chamfer my necks so I start chamfering the necks and place the chamfered case in the annealing machine hopper. I do this until the hopper is about 3/4 full and then I turn the machine on. I keep chamfering the brass and putting the cases in the hopper. The annealing routine is a bit faster than the chamfering process, especially when I give my old arthritic hand a break from time to time, so the hopper gradually empties since I can't feed it quite fast enough. The goal is to have the hopper almost empty when I chamfer the last case.

When I'm finished chamfering 300 rounds, I wait for about 2 minutes for it to finish. It takes another minute to disconnect the gas, unplug the machine, and stow it on the shelf. So, all in all my annealing routine takes 4 minutes extra time for 300 rounds.

Bottom line: You can spend a lot of time and money on annealing, but you don't have to. My machine is precise, easy to use, inexpensive to build, inexpensive to use, and by performing a simple multi-tasking routine, annealing takes almost no extra time.

For me, split cases are a thing of the past. I anneal every time and my Lapua brass seems to last forever. I don't count number of times fired, but it's a large number. I haven't purchased brass for a long time (two years or so?) and I shoot two F-class matches each month plus a lot of testing and some practicing.

The way I figure it, if I shoot 3000 rounds per year, annealing saves me about $279 per year and takes me 40 minutes of extra time. That's like earning wages of $416 per hour. Makes me feel like a lawyer working for the DNC.

 

[Doug Beach]

I’m about 60,000 rounds into my competitive shooting career (highpower), so more than most, but less than many.
I’m not at the highest level, but I’m a high master in multiple disciplines, and hold a national record. My ammo is not holding me back.
I have never annealed. I discard my brass when the primer pockets get loose, or case head separation appears imminent. I cannot recall ever discarding a Lapua or LC case due to a split neck.
I’m not saying there aren’t accuracy advantages. Sling and irons does not allow me to pick the fly sh*t out of the pepper, precision-wise.
I can’t see any case longevity advantages.

 

[270WinDude]

I have been annealing for so many years, at least 20 doing it by hand (with a drill and a standing lone torch) and about 5 with a BenchSource, I will take your word for longevity. However, it is FAR more important to me about the consistency of seating bullets than brass life. I remember quite well, prior to ever annealing, that seating bullets was fraught with seating inconsistencies! I use the OLD and small (as it very small) RCBS Partner Press which you literally can feel all the seating force discrepancies. I can imagine if you had one of those "force measuring" Arbor Presses, those inconsistencies could easily be measured! So annealing, at least for me, is two-fold, brass consistency and brass longevity.

Exact same experience. No scientific side by sides yet but the consistent part is so blatantly obvious that I don’t need to test it methodically and peer reviewed. I shoot a 270win so the neck is a foot and a half long and half inch thick with a mile long shoulder so maybe just my chamber of choice with the issues I have.......

 

[270WinDude]

I’m about 60,000 rounds into my competitive shooting career (highpower), so more than most, but less than many.
I’m not at the highest level, but I’m a high master in multiple disciplines, and hold a national record. My ammo is not holding me back.
I have never annealed. I discard my brass when the primer pockets get loose, or case head separation appears imminent. I cannot recall ever discarding a Lapua or LC case due to a split neck.
I’m not saying there aren’t accuracy advantages. Sling and irons does not allow me to pick the fly sh*t out of the pepper, precision-wise.
I can’t see any case longevity advantages.

So just to add info to my thinking here... do you not anneal for multiple chamberings or just one? Do you have an undersized neck and/or turn your brass? Do you think that would play a factor? Do you utilize some sort of culling process per batch / cycle and if so what’s the attrition rate roughly? I’m probably not asking the right questions but you’re a competitor of high standing and are not annealing so I’m curious.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The bottom line is this: like similar posts about bumping shoulders and a variety of other topics, the question of how often to anneal brass never fails to bring forth a wide variety of opinions. Just remember, these are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Without a doubt, shooters on both sides of this issue have managed produce outstanding results using approaches that range from annealing every firing, to not annealing at all. That alone tells you that there is no right or wrong answer. You simply have to test and then decide which approach works best for you.

 

[Doug Beach]

So just to add info to my thinking here... do you not anneal for multiple chamberings or just one? Do you have an undersized neck and/or turn your brass? Do you think that would play a factor? Do you utilize some sort of culling process per batch / cycle and if so what’s the attrition rate roughly? I’m probably not asking the right questions but you’re a competitor of high standing and are not annealing so I’m curious.

I do not turn necks (I have, but not much, and not currently). My chambers do not have tight necks, all exceed .005” total clearance. I use bushing dies, and a separate expander. I don’t work the brass more than I deem necessary. Loads are quite warm, but not excessive. A loose feeling primer pocket gets marked, and discarded after that use. Thinning at the case head gets the whole batch thrown out. When I shot an M1A, that brass was only fired 5x before being discarded, so that wasn’t a good test. With a bolt gun, for instance, I currently have about 6000 shots on 500 pieces of Lapua .308. Attrition is very low, single digit. .308, 6br, .260 primarily.

 

[Raythemanroe]

No manufacturer puts in writing that altering their product is recommended and safe, they like to stay in business..

Ray

 

[Steve Ladino]

Hey all,

Was in Lapua’s website and for the 6.5 brass, they say they do not recommended Re-annealing their off the shelf factory annealed brass. Is their a reason for this? I know most on here anneal every time If I’m not wrong. So why does lapua say this and are they correct?

Ask Lapua

 

[fatheeler]

Just curious, how much brass can you buy for the price to purchase and operate an annealing machine ? How much time is spent annealing ?

built my own for around 100.00, do 50 in a couple mins can post short video if you like

 

[jds holler]

I am a minimalist about most things. I admire economy, simplicity, AND good results. I love getting good results with no frills. My reloading hobby started when I was a kid, and literally couldn't justify wasting the money to buy factory shells when I could start loading for with the incredibly inexpensive Lee Loader.

I've been loading for almost fifty years, and still don't own a tumbler, Charge Master, or annealer. -- Three of the items that seem to generate the most threads and posts here and on every other forum.

I've always been extremely happy with the accuracy of my reloads compared to factory stuff, as well as performance on game. I've been able to get my factory rifles to shoot very well ALMOST without exception.

I'm not against annealing, and if I was having a problem with accuracy or case life, I'd certainly be trying it. For now though I've gotta conclude that it isn't something that I need for what I do. I will say that I'd for damned sure get an annealer before I get a tumbler or a Chargemaster. jd

 

[rr2030]

MAGA
Make Annealing Great Again

 

[Puzzaz01]

I guess I couldn't get it right. I tried annealing and my scores / grouping fell way off, maybe too much heat, too long or not enough. When I started reloading I could reload about 100 rounds an hour, now to load up 100 rounds it takes 3 nights about 7-8 hours... very meticulous. I do shoot High Master in F Open but couldn't hold it while trying to learn annealing so I quit it immediately and sold that puppy. My neck tensions are pretty consistent, but I go a little over-board on my case prep, sometimes working with different mandrels to get that perfect fit. I write the seating force on my cases while loading and if one is a little high I set it to the side as a fouler and the next time I reload it I'll work on that neck with a different bushing and or mandrel. It's been working for me so far. It'd be hard for me to try annealing again. And I'm on somewhere around 20 reloads of Lapua brass, I'm not a log book guy, I change the barrels when they stop grouping. Just my 2 cents.

Darrin

 

[243winxb]

Lapua does not recommend re-annealing our cases, as the results of such a procedure can never be guaranteed. Re-annealing may change the case proportions and the metal hardness in a way that makes the case potentially dangerous for both firearm and shooter.

http://www.lapua.com/en/headlines/399/What-is-the-Discoloration-on-My-Lapua-Brass

I wonder how many post this time.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Every variable makes a difference when annealing. The powders you use seem to like different neck tension and so on.. They are so many different combinations to reloading.

Ray

 

[TIMO]

Hey all,

Was in Lapua’s website and for the 6.5 brass, they say they do not recommended Re-annealing their off the shelf factory annealed brass. Is their a reason for this? I know most on here anneal every time If I’m not wrong. So why does lapua say this and are they correct?

Just my .02 cents. Went to the Lapua web page and did read it, I think it follows the lines of firearm manufactures stating not to use reloaded ammunition in the manual that came with a new firearm.

You could just wait till you have 100 cases with split necks and send them back for replacement and explain that you followed their guidance/advice and the cases failed.

Tim

 

[KevinThomas]

Good luck with that. But I’d be happy to point out the mistakes you’re making that are shortening your cases life if you’re not seeing at least ten firings out of your Lapua cases . . ..