urbanrifleman
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Obviously. Thank you for posting some common sense.
Lake City Ammo plant Strike
- Thread starter CJ6
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Obviously. Thank you for posting some common sense.
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
Bingo !
Want to know why the price of everything is increasing? Because ALOT of workers get a 3-4 % annual raise without bringing any new product, any increased production, or any more opportunity to profit for their manager or Company ownership. Increased wages have to be paid for somehow, and if you were the company exec that signed for the mortgage on the production plant and the business loans, and LoC, you wouldn't want it to mean you get to earn less for the same amount of work.
So guess what? Customers get to pay more.
It was absolutely criminal When government schools stop teaching basic economics and it wasn't by accident.
Edipt to add that labor unions are basically a communist pry bar to extort company Executives to force the company to pay workers more even though the workers are producing the same amount or even less than they had been prior to the wage increase.
If you dislike communism, you have to dislike unions. Any other position would be liking your pay raise while complaining about increases in the cost of everything
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GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
See #8. "Industrial armies" = unions. What's the point of an army? To go to war. Who does an army of workers go to war against? Ownership and management. Marxist class struggle involves constantly pitting workers against management ( among other things) It isn't by chance labor unions have been a prime mover against both conservative and libertarian ideals finding their way into our government via legislation.
If you read the whole list, you'll see that along with a heavy progressive income tax for everyone, stealing inhertance via taxing those " "evil rich" via estate tax, and free education for all in government schools, America is basically a communist country already. Labor unions are just commie gravy.
If you read the whole list, you'll see that along with a heavy progressive income tax for everyone, stealing inhertance via taxing those " "evil rich" via estate tax, and free education for all in government schools, America is basically a communist country already. Labor unions are just commie gravy.
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ISS
Gold $$ Contributor
Incredibly lame anti-union rhetoric.
If any of you ever worked for wages for somebody, you would likely never get a raise or increase in benefits willingly by management. The owners job is to maximize profit. But, you want to get married, have children, buy a house, buy new vehicles, retire with more retirement-$$$ aside from social security, and have expensive new firearms built.
Take Ford as an example. They would love to pay workers minimum wage, and zero benefits or retirement. If they froze them, they would still raise the price of new vehicles every year. You never hear them bitch about the price increase in steel or other commodities. Do you think only employees raises do that?
Take a class in Economics 101.
If any of you ever worked for wages for somebody, you would likely never get a raise or increase in benefits willingly by management. The owners job is to maximize profit. But, you want to get married, have children, buy a house, buy new vehicles, retire with more retirement-$$$ aside from social security, and have expensive new firearms built.
Take Ford as an example. They would love to pay workers minimum wage, and zero benefits or retirement. If they froze them, they would still raise the price of new vehicles every year. You never hear them bitch about the price increase in steel or other commodities. Do you think only employees raises do that?
Take a class in Economics 101.
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
You don't like what a company's paying? Quit and go get another job. It's called the free market and it always works the best for everyone, both worker and management.
What's funny is I have a whole work career that proves it wrong that management will never increase wages unless unions are involved. All you've got to do is work hard and add value to the company and make yourself indispensable and management is not stupid.. they'll know that they can't afford to lose you and they'll raise your wages without you even asking.
They know if they don't you'll just go to work for their competition and drive them out of business.
The above comes from Economics 101 class and personal experience.
By the way don't take your economics class from a government school because they exist out of the 10 measures of Marxism and they'll just teach you Marxist economics.
What's funny is I have a whole work career that proves it wrong that management will never increase wages unless unions are involved. All you've got to do is work hard and add value to the company and make yourself indispensable and management is not stupid.. they'll know that they can't afford to lose you and they'll raise your wages without you even asking.
They know if they don't you'll just go to work for their competition and drive them out of business.
The above comes from Economics 101 class and personal experience.
By the way don't take your economics class from a government school because they exist out of the 10 measures of Marxism and they'll just teach you Marxist economics.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Companies complain all the time about increases in materials, just not to consumers. Those complaints fall on the ears of whoever they are donating election money to. I worked for several non union companies, I often got pay increases, after annual reviews. Was always told it was due to PRODUCTIVITY.
Our schools in America crank out a LOT of fools that can’t read or do basic math every single year.
Illiterate kids actually get ‘passing’ grades.
Do you homework on the illiteracy rate in America bro.
I had an employee once that came in one day bragging about how he had just passed his test and got his GED (Tennessee).
I asked him how in the hell he could have even taken the test since he could NOT freaking read?
Dude got butt hurt because I pointed out his illiteracy but too bad. The truth hurts sometimes but needs to be said.
Guy did not last long and got canned. I forget what exactly he screwed up the day he got canned because he screwed up so much stuff regularly...
I’d be a bit more union friendly if they were optional and didn’t spend so much money on politics instead of their membership.
If they are mandatory then I question how good they really are.
If they are mandatory then I question how good they really are.
Go back to the turn of the century to see the reason that unions began. I worked in unions for 1/2 my working life. Been in some good unions and some bad ones.
Unions began because companies deserved them. Taking advantage of workers ( aka. Low wages, dangerous working environments, and company stores). Research the history of Carnegie Steel or Rockefeller ( Standard Oil) to see how their labor practices ( thuggery) brought about unions that exist today.
All that said, there is an element inherent in unions that encourages minimum work for the wages earned. What is the incentive to work harder if my wages are contract controlled? Whether u work harder or not, wage is the same. Ur security is controlled by seniority, not ability or contribution.
Some unions n companies have decent working relationships while others ( companies AND unions) encourage discord amount the employees.
It is a very interesting topic to discuss, neither side is right or wrong.
Companies will always raise prices to what the market will bear, not because of just labor. Take a look at the financial pages. COMPANIES ARE POSTING RECORD PROFITS. Thinking that unions are the cause is laughable. Take a look at members of board of directors and you'll see how many are on each other's boards. Ceo's move from one to another once they get their golden parachute of parting millions and stock options, yet unions are the problem! They make millions by arguing about paying a fair, living wage. People run down unions for wanting to improve their lot. How about not blaming the unions and fighting for your own wages and benefits. Ask a union for help and they'd be happy to help instead of letting you join the race to the bottom. Proud union pipefitter for 40 years!!!!
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
Labor costs will very clearly, objectively and definitely determine what the selling price *must* be raised to.... or the company will definitely go out of business. Its known as " cost accounting."
What the market *might* bear is highly subjective and a mistake in that area can cause a product not to sell. Caution will be exercised.
The two are very different.
Im a CPA, who has worked in various companies and industries, with annual revenues from 6 million to 2 billion. Companies are very conscious about over charging the market as ( in perishables) an extra $1.00 in unit price can cost them over $100 k in spoiled inventory. An extra $100 in unit price of non- perishables can cost a company massive expense in inventory carrying costs, and even to lose the whole Market to their competition.
"Whatever the market will bear" is a theoretical hypothetical almost fiction
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
Btw... since increasing wages drive up the price of everything everywhere, whatever your union got you in increased wages you probably lost in increase cost of everything else you buy. You got $1.00 / hour more in wages, but you lost it in food and gas and insurance costs and utilities and roads and bridges and beer down at the pub and automobile prices and lawn mower prices and rifle and ammo prices, and every other good or service you purchased. Maybe you actually ended up worse off.
All you really accomplished for sure ... is explosive inflation.
That was the marxists goal for your life. Unions were the marxists tool.
All you really accomplished for sure ... is explosive inflation.
That was the marxists goal for your life. Unions were the marxists tool.
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Corporations raise prices to the edge of the comfort zone,eg whatever the market can bear. That becomes the new normal and the process starts again. Again, I watch the markets very carefully and corporations raising prices have created record profits the last 8 to 10 years. Now we're talking about 2 to maybe 4 percent wage increase IF at all. Meanwhile a ceo gets an increase from say 10 million to 20 million which increases as such are definitely not unheard of. Who's really increasing the cost of things. The gap between the haves and have nots is increasing at a rate FAR outstripping any cost a moderate pay increase would cause and greatly increasing inflation. If you want to hold the corporate party line of "union bad" while they pick you pocket and tell you the bottom line can't afford a decent wage and benefits while lining their pockets knock yourself out. Heck, what do i know I'm not a cpa.... but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn express!!
The vast majority of workers are not unionized yet they seem to succeed in life just fine. I have seen, during my adult life (age 81 now) a number of industries killed by unions. While it is true , unions have increased wages and benefits, they also have the reputation of being corrupt. Get off the train in Union Station in DC. What does the sign say on the first building on your right? Teamsters Union. What does that say, really? Other buildings around it also have union signs on them. The first job I took after separating from the Air Force was in a union shop. I worked there 3 months. What I saw was a bunch of cutthroat folks who were trying to sell everyone else out to get promoted. Too much like the Military for me so I quit and never looked back. I always figured I didn't need any help with jobs and that I was either good enough to cut it or I moved on. A man is a man for a that I say.
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
I have first hand personal 20+ years experience that I already documented for you that says it just doesn't work that way. But that's what the Marxists would have you believe about management so that you will forever be hostile toward management and they hostile toward you.
Its a choice if you want the marxists class struggle ploy to succeed.
GetReal
Silver $$ Contributor
The corporations raised prices to pay for your union - generated pay raise, that was NOT supported by increased Productivity or new revenue streams
The abuses by management cannot effectively be dealt with by union abuses.
The solution is to do to others as you would *have them* do to you not to do to others as they *already did* to you.
The abuses by management cannot effectively be dealt with by union abuses.
The solution is to do to others as you would *have them* do to you not to do to others as they *already did* to you.
As it's a choice to drink the corporate kool aid. Anyone can claim to be anything to make their point. Ive been on both sides of union membership and I've seen how both sides are treated. I ran multi million dollar shutdowns in refineries and have seen the difference in craftsmanship and knowledge a union trained journeyman brings to the table. The days of not doing your job are over. When in supervisory position I never tolerated some not doing their work. Things HAVE changed regardless of what you believe. Its hard to see that in an office. I'm done. Arguing will never change either of our minds.
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