ladder test opinion part 2

[gambleone]

Most find powder charge 1st, then fine tune with seating depth. Do ladder spaced at .2 gr and preferably not in much wind. Couple other ways to do it also like round robin etc. Be aware though, round robin is not a ladder test, more of an ideal charge at a given distance. Shoot at least
300 yds. Like retired said, no 3 shot groups for ladder, just one. then when you find node, do three or five shot group. imho.

 

[CharlieNC]

I vary charge and seating depth at the same time, so usually after one range session my load is defined. If you read Tony Boyer book he does this with something like 5 charge weights x 5 seating depths = 25 load combinations, and looks for the particular combination that gives the smallest group. But when just looking at poi as in a ladder test, only 9 of the combinations are necessary to find the node; yes a basic level of working with statistics is needed. The main point is in this manner it has been clear that the magnitude of the charge weight node can be very dependent on the seating depth, and vice versa. It would be very difficult and inefficient to determine this one variable at a time.

 

[retired]

stay on topic. since you cannot read.
THE SUBJECT IS LADDER TESTING.
not about tuning after a ladder, but what and how to use a LADDER.

I am on Topic. So you're saying that first find a powder charge then a seating depth ?

 

[ClassCat]

stay on topic. since you cannot read.
THE SUBJECT IS LADDER TESTING.
not about tuning after a ladder, but what and how to use a LADDER.

I 'm sorry Mike. I thought your Education in loading was at a higher level than stabbing in the dark and not knowing how and where to look.

 

[jdj71]

I'm with Bbear 7,8,9 is sweet spot (by velocity )keep in mind best accuracy is not always at highest speed.

 

[retired]

and you still cannot stay on topic.
THREAD: ladder test
SPECIFIC QUESTION: "I am lost , can someone explain what this test is showing"
my error, i thought you read and understood english.

I 'm sorry Mike. I thought your Education in loading was at a higher level than stabbing in the dark and not knowing how and where to look.

 

[ClassCat]

Then tell me, how did you read those targets ? I responded in a P M With the 2 nodes that were CLEARLY VISIBLE

 

[Bart B.]

I'd do another identical test. There's a lower cluster with shots 2 3 5 6 and a higher one with shots 7 8 10 11 12.

Best proof one such test's validity is to do another one. If the vertical space between consecitive shots is the same amount and direction, it's a good test.

A spreadsheet graph would be good to see.

 

[dmoran]

@rockwind1

Here is my "day late and a dollar short" reply:
Good looking ladder test, with obvious results: 10,11,12, with velocity data confirming them. The "scatter nodes" are also obvious as well, 1,4,9,13, which at times are better to know, so that they can be avoided, that aid to determining node centers, like they do in your ladder: with 9 & 13 as scatters, points to 11 as the node center.

One problem I'm reading in a couple of the replies to you has been, obvious lack of experience to ladder testing, and/or understanding them. My advise, you got a lot of good data there, and a well executed ladder. You already assessed the vertical right, and have a good roughed in foundation established, that only costed you 13-rounds and a few sighter's. Take from it all and proceed....

 

[rockwind1]

thank you everyone for your advice and insight. i am headed out in the morning to try again. thank god i got into reloading my own ammo or I would be stuck inside the house relaxing at night!

 

[ClassCat]

The targets below were shot with my Unlimited gun with 2 bullets made on the same die set up using different core seating pressures.The jackets and cores were the same lot. LOT-1 1-A Jam +5,,1-B On the Jam,1-C 12 off. Lot-2 1-D Jam +5, 1-E on the Jam,2-A 12 off. Back to lot 1,Different powder 2-B On the Jam,2-C 12 off, 2-D 12 off +3/10 powder,2-E up 3/10 again on powder.3-A same load.2-B,C,D,E and 3-a was a .1460 AGG @100 Yards with 3 different loads, and all 5 shot groups. Thats my Ladder test.

 

[rockwind1]

The targets below were shot with my Unlimited gun with 2 bullets made on the same die set up using different core seating pressures.The jackets and cores were the same lot. LOT-1 1-A Jam +5,,1-B On the Jam,1-C 12 off. Lot-2 1-D Jam +5, 1-E on the Jam,2-A 12 off. Back to lot 1,Different powder 2-B On the Jam,2-C 12 off, 2-D 12 off +3/10 powder,2-E up 3/10 again on powder.3-A same load.2-B,C,D,E and 3-a was a .1460 AGG @100 Yards with 3 different loads, and all 5 shot groups. Thats my Ladder test.View attachment 1047170

i would be happy with any of your ladder test's for my final load!

 

[retired]

like I said way too many people on here DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT A LADDER TEST IS NOR HOW TO USE IT.
why post bench rest FIVE SHOT groups IN A PRONE RIFLE LADDER THREAD ?

The targets below were shot with my Unlimited gun with 2 bullets made on the same die set up using different core seating pressures.The jackets and cores were the same lot. LOT-1 1-A Jam +5,,1-B On the Jam,1-C 12 off. Lot-2 1-D Jam +5, 1-E on the Jam,2-A 12 off. Back to lot 1,Different powder 2-B On the Jam,2-C 12 off, 2-D 12 off +3/10 powder,2-E up 3/10 again on powder.3-A same load.2-B,C,D,E and 3-a was a .1460 AGG @100 Yards with 3 different loads, and all 5 shot groups. Thats my Ladder test.View attachment 1047170

 

[Jdne5b]

The targets below were shot with my Unlimited gun with 2 bullets made on the same die set up using different core seating pressures.The jackets and cores were the same lot. LOT-1 1-A Jam +5,,1-B On the Jam,1-C 12 off. Lot-2 1-D Jam +5, 1-E on the Jam,2-A 12 off. Back to lot 1,Different powder 2-B On the Jam,2-C 12 off, 2-D 12 off +3/10 powder,2-E up 3/10 again on powder.3-A same load.2-B,C,D,E and 3-a was a .1460 AGG @100 Yards with 3 different loads, and all 5 shot groups. Thats my Ladder test.

That's not a ladder.

This might help explain what a ladder is.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ladder-testing.3894169/

 

[ClassCat]

That's not a ladder.

This might help explain what a ladder is.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ladder-testing.3894169/

Sure it is. It starts with seating depth and goes to powder. All your Ladder proves is that the bullet goes vertical with higher charges . take into consideration i get vertical with the wrong seating depth and powder charge as in target 1-B. At 500 yards that would be about a 4-5 inch group with the same load. Notice that the POI is also different. What your Ladder does is gives you a node,a window,for a charge range.

 

[Bart B.]

Will two ladder tests with the same conditions and set of incremental load settings put each successive load's bullet holes less than 1/10th MOA different vertical position in the second test compared to the first test?

 

[Rsadams]

thank you everyone for your advice and insight. i am headed out in the morning to try again. thank god i got into reloading my own ammo or I would be stuck inside the house relaxing at night!

Uhggg you and me both..lol was up till 1am loading for next morning...three times this week alone...

 

[retired]

the whole idea of a LADDER is STEPS. IT IS NOT ABOUT GROUPS NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SAY IT IS. SIMPLE ENGLISH "YOUR GROUP TESTING IS NOT A LADDER"
A LADDER(STEPS) IS JUST TO FIND NODES/SWEET SPOTS nothing else.
from ladder data you then go on to GROUP shooting based on the bests "steps" from the ladder.
LADDER IS NOT ABOUT TUNING ..IT IS SIMPLY A starting point or two.
( look up the word ladder, get an adult to explain the concept of STEPS)

Sure it is. It starts with seating depth and goes to powder. All your Ladder proves is that the bullet goes vertical with higher charges . take into consideration i get vertical with the wrong seating depth and powder charge as in target 1-B. At 500 yards that would be about a 4-5 inch group with the same load. Notice that the POI is also different. What your Ladder does is gives you a node,a window,for a charge range.

 

[ClassCat]

the whole idea of a LADDER is STEPS. IT IS NOT ABOUT GROUPS NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SAY IT IS. SIMPLE ENGLISH "YOUR GROUP TESTING IS NOT A LADDER"
A LADDER(STEPS) IS JUST TO FIND NODES/SWEET SPOTS nothing else.
from ladder data you then go on to GROUP shooting based on the bests "steps" from the ladder.
LADDER IS NOT ABOUT TUNING ..IT IS SIMPLY A starting point or two.
( look up the word ladder, get an adult to explain the concept of STEPS)

I see your comprehension level is LOW at best. Here is the last line of my post.
"" What your Ladder does is gives you a node,a window,for a charge range.""

By the way Mike your Insults prove your communication skills are needing some improvement along with your use of CAPITAL LETTERS or Shouting

 

[ClassCat]

Here is my P M to Rockwind
There is a pattern, actually 2 patterns. #2-6. Your powder was in node which was 2837-2873.That node is 2830-2880. 2,3,and 5 were shot in a left to right wind 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock(Shooting Flat) with a slight angle change from 7 or 8 o'clock to 1or 2 o'clock on shots 4 and 6.
Target 7-12 look good but were out of the next node, with 9 and 13 shot in a let up.
I would go in the middle trying to keep it around 2850. Watch the wind. That gun is a good shooter.
I M H O Good luck !