Just a 223 rant...

[Spike A]

I live/work on family farm ... myself dad and grandpa does some tractor driving about it ... but I control all ground for hunting purposes.... one of my best friends wounded 2 deer last year on our farm ... I told him he had to practice more WITH me so I could help him and make sure he was able to shoot better and better shot placement ... he was a little irritated with me but hey I have to do what I have to do ... after some well needed practice and help he understood why I wanted to be there and thanked me for making him do it... and helping him

 

[timeout]

I live/work on family farm ... myself dad and grandpa does some tractor driving about it ... but I control all ground for hunting purposes.... one of my best friends wounded 2 deer last year on our farm ... I told him he had to practice more WITH me so I could help him and make sure he was able to shoot better and better shot placement ... he was a little irritated with me but hey I have to do what I have to do ... after some well needed practice and help he understood why I wanted to be there and thanked me for making him do it... and helping him

Reminds me of about a dozen years ago a friend of mine brought a buddy along deer hunting. He missed a wall hanger at about 25 yards. I was miffed. Took him to a target after the hunt. He missed a 4'X4' sheet of plywood at 50 yards. He had a scope mounted and bore sighted the day before season and had not even put one round through it.

 

[hogpatrol]

My deer hunting friends are, all season long, groundhog and crow hunters. I do the same. Makes deer season a whole lot easier.

 

[timeout]

I'm envious!!

 

[Keith Glasscock]

We do a hunter sight in around here (city). It always amazes me the people that didn't get anything of value out of a "bore sight" job...

Having worked a little on a ranch and seen animals shot, I can say that I don't have any tolerance for poor marksmanship in the field.

 

[Spike A]

Yea ... I politely told him if he makes a bad shot agian ( accidents being aside.. always possible ) something would have to change ... I got married a couple years ago and my father in law and brother in law hunted some I shot with them before they went hunting ... over past 10 years I've had to track and put down too many to allow people that can't judge distances or know when not to shoot or plain can't shoot to allow it to happen if I can... least I can do ... that being said a friend of mine was hit by a car several years ago and can't stand much recoil... he hunts with a 223... essentially treating it like a cross bow only shoots 50yds max and we loaded up some barns hunting bullets for him ... and I am confident in his shot place ment as I have seen him take countless wood chucks out to 300 with same gun...

 

[timeout]

PA Hunter here wishing they would raise the hunting liscense from 20 to 200.

Good luck
Brandon

One of the dumbest statements ever. Make hunting a rich man's sport so only authorities on all things hunting, like yourself, can afford to go. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[justpassinthru]

Somehow, I wish there could be some sort of qualification to prove someone is competent with a rifle and not an idiot, before a hunting license was issued.

 

[cath8r]

Don't want to step on any toes or P anyone off. But in Canada we are not allowed to use .22 cal on any big game, only on varmints. Been that way as long as I can remember and I'm 64. I've heard of a person killing a grizzly with only a .22, a good shot is just that. Maybe the powers that be do know what they're talking about when they made the rules here. Just sayin....

In ontario you can use a .224 centerfire for der.

 

[msinc]

The shotguns in big bear country are for self defense, not hunting. At close range there are few cartridges that can beat a 12 ga. slug at 15 to 1700 fps.

Never said they were for hunting...where do you get this???? Read the post again!!! What I wrote was: "...everyone up there had 12 gauge shotguns with slugs for grizzly/brown bear protection."
I totally understand that the folks up there carry shotguns for self defense, that is what I said...that fact makes my point even more. Again, to repeat, I have lived and hunted in shotgun only country for my entire life and have seen way too many whitetails run off after being hit wit 12 ga slugs....so no, I disagree they are something that "cant be beat". Point being, if it wont reliably stop a 130 pound whitetail any better than what I have experienced over the years then it is definitely NOT something I want to trust in big bear country. Now, you...can please for certain go right ahead.

 

[msinc]

Here's my experiences with Pennsy but probably applies to a lot of states' deer hunters. After being cleaned and put away last year, pull the gun out of the closet the day after Thanksgiving (the following Monday is first day of firearms season), fondle it while dreaming of a big buck walking by around daybreak or no later than 8:00 a.m, call a couple buddies to go sight in at the range or on the farm, grab a couple boxes of different brands and bullet weights, set up pie plates at 50 and 100 yards. Go through both both boxes of ammo quick enough to fry bacon on the barrel, all the while adjusting the scope after every shot. Finally run out of ammo or stop with five left saying that's good enough for a deer. Flame on!

I lived for two years near Altoona, Pa. and hunted there as much as I possibly could. I don't know about the rest of the state, but I have to say in all fairness that there were a lot of very nice, ethical hunters and the majority of them were very knowledgeable about guns. A lot of people like to bust on Pa. hunters but I think it is mostly in jest only...I remember that they closed the schools down for opening day of deer season and even though there was a "doe season" not too many folks would go out and shoot one...at least not back then. Everybody deer hunted there...even old ladies with floppy straw hats. I really liked it there and I'd probably still be there if the work hadn't dried up.
One other thing I remember, there was this little town called Bellwood...ALL the women that lived there were drop dead gorgeous!!!!! We used to say, "must have been something in the water!!!"

 

[rebel]

One reason I joined this board and became a contributor is because of the hunters here. No matter what some seem to be using, most put the work in and make sure it does the job. Not about a caliber, it is about people as mentioned before. Consider yourselves the top 5% gentleman. It's mostly the reason I hunt alone anymore. My old buddies can't do it and I know no one willing to put in the work. I just like smelling gunpowder, so most think I'm weird anyway.

 

[Racebannon3855]

I have been watching your thread and I am enjoying all of the different opinions. If I was hunting over a feeder a 60 gr Partition and a 223 would work well. Where I hunt we cannot feed deer so the deer are usually moving while feeding and quite often in heavy cover so I use something more traditional. We have a considerable amount of property between a couple family members and my family and I actually live on it. The relatives/neighbors that come out for opening weekend can be very frustrating.

I thought this was a great blood trail, others were upset because it wasn't on the ground.. The deer was laying 20' away in a pile.

Rather than go on about what caliber they use, a lack of sighting in and a lack of follow up are my biggest frustrations. Whether dealing with students in a hunter safety class or family members I ask that they do not shoot at an animal that is farther away than they practiced. This year we had one family member fire at several different deer that were over 300 yards away, he had never shot beyond 100 at the range.
I preach that the shooter stays where they are and remembers a landmark where the deer was when they shot or where it was the last time they saw it. Then they can direct me to where the blood trail should start. Once on our place and once on the neighbors this year people claimed clean misses and claimed to have checked for blood. In both cases I found the deer dead within 50 yards of where they were shot. In both cases the shooters were using a 30-06 with Wal-Mart ammo and made high lung hits that did not provide great blood trails. The last call I got from a neighbor at the end of the season was about a wounded spike horn. The shooter was damning the 308 and 150 gr Ballistic Tips as a terrible deer gun. We all know that the 308 is a great deer cartridge and while I like Game Kings a Ballistic Tip is not a bad choice. The thing is when you shoot a buck in the lower leg you don't get much of a blood trail and the animal suffers for a long time.
Spend the $10 for the life size deer target and shoot at it twice a day for a few weeks and see how you and your rig do from a cold barrel and then you start to know your limitations.

 

[Wjesswheel]

Never said they were for hunting...where do you get this???? Read the post again!!! What I wrote was: "...everyone up there had 12 gauge shotguns with slugs for grizzly/brown bear protection."
I totally understand that the folks up there carry shotguns for self defense, that is what I said...that fact makes my point even more. Again, to repeat, I have lived and hunted in shotgun only country for my entire life and have seen way too many whitetails run off after being hit wit 12 ga slugs....so no, I disagree they are something that "cant be beat". Point being, if it wont reliably stop a 130 pound whitetail any better than what I have experienced over the years then it is definitely NOT something I want to trust in big bear country. Now, you...can please for certain go right ahead.

I agree a few years ago I helped cut up a really nice buck a friend shot. We dug out 4 shot gun slugs from the butt end that had healed over. a broad head from the butt end, and 2 more broad heads on the front shoulder. Amazing it ever lived to be a 170 class deer.

 

[boogershooter]

Reminds me of what my archery mentor said to me.
"A surgically placed needle can be much more deadly than a wildly thrown hatchet"

 

[dryhumor]

Somehow, I wish there could be some sort of qualification to prove someone is competent with a rifle and not an idiot, before a hunting license was issued.

It would be a logistical nightmare to qualify everyone competent with a rifle. Though it could be done in hunter safety education classes for the youngest potential hunters. Proof of ability after training. Don't pass the practical, try again next year. In the interim, go shoot several hundred rounds. That would go a long way the stream and educate the younger hunters with practical skills.

As some have said, cheap rifles, cheap ammo, cheap scopes, no practice can all add up to failure. I know of quite a few that go to the nearest pawn shop, pick up something to hunt with, and return it after the season.

I'd say, if you have control of the land, make your hunters prove they can hit a target before going out the hunt. That does two things. 1 It proves zero/ammo 2 It gives confidence to the shooter that the gun is right.

 

[hogpatrol]

For all that are tasked with family and friends that don't practice, try one of these targets for them. I feel it's a better way than a pie plate or standard target. In my case, I set up at 100, 200 and 300 meters. It's roughly 36" square and the deer is pretty close to lifesize. I use a .45 custom smokeless muzzleloaders pushing a 200 gr. SST in the 2700 fps neighborhood and 300 is easily doable from treestands with rails. After making sure the scope is still where it was the year before, minimum three shots at each distance, each from a cold, dirty bore. Time consuming but worth it.

 

[people]

It would be a logistical nightmare to qualify everyone competent with a rifle. Though it could be done in hunter safety education classes for the youngest potential hunters. Proof of ability after training. Don't pass the practical, try again next year. In the interim, go shoot several hundred rounds. That would go a long way the stream and educate the younger hunters with practical skills.

As some have said, cheap rifles, cheap ammo, cheap scopes, no practice can all add up to failure. I know of quite a few that go to the nearest pawn shop, pick up something to hunt with, and return it after the season.

I'd say, if you have control of the land, make your hunters prove they can hit a target before going out the hunt. That does two things. 1 It proves zero/ammo 2 It gives confidence to the shooter that the gun is right.

It would be very easy. A few weekends the state game agency can role through thousands of people. Test is easy just three shots on printer paper. if you miss just move to the side and the next person gets to go.

 

[hogpatrol]

It would be very easy. A few weekends the state game agency can role through thousands of people. Test is easy just three shots on printer paper. if you miss just move to the side and the next person gets to go.

I like the idea but it'd be more than a few weekends in PA. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 thousand deer hunters out on first day of gun season.

 

[AckleymanII]

I helped brother retrieve two does he shot with an AR15(223) loaded with 62g triple shocks with 6.5x20x leupold with target knobs calibrated for the bullet's drop. Range was 270 yards. One doe ran 40 yds and the other about 50, lung shot.

Slob hunters will be slob hunters. Try to get a slob hunter to not be a slob hunter is tough...every try to push a string?