JB Bore Paste

[SS427]

Frank, you said you use it with a snug fitting bronze brush. I take it you exit the muzzle each time as I don't think you want to reverse a bronze brush in the middle of your barrel?

Do you take the brush off each pass, cause I wouldn't think you would want to pull a bronze brush back through the crown with an abrasive cleaner?

I've used JB a couple ways. One with a tight fitting wool mop. The other with a worn out nylon brush wrapped with a patch. Both seem to work fine. Never tried a bronze brush. I don't have a bore scope, but the accuracy results speak for themselves.

 

[SpiritNugent]

I wouldn't advise bringing a brush through again. Even a bronze brush. I always take mine off when exiting the muzzle. A royal pain but it's safe for sure that way.

In terms of using the JB, do you guys stroke it back and forth? When you do, do you stroke it in and out of the chamber/throat area? Or just keep it concentated ahead of the beginning of the throat?

Just curious as to most methods.

 

[alf]

I use an under sized brush wrapped with a patch, short stroking back and forth. The throat area gets the most attention, transitioning to less and less towards the muzzle.

 

[artbosco]

In terms of using the JB, do you guys stroke it back and forth? When you do, do you stroke it in and out of the chamber/throat area? Or just keep it concentated ahead of the beginning of the throat?

When I first clean my 6PPC and 30BR Krieger barrels, I put JB on the first 1/4" of a nylon brush and spin it around about 30 revolutions in the far end of the neck chamber before doing any barrel cleaning. [A rod guide is not used while doing this since I'm only cleaning the chamber.] This removes any carbon deposits in the forward portion of the neck chamber. I remove the JB, and other deposits in the chamber body, with a 3"X3" patch soaked with "Lighter Fluid" [it evaporates quickly and ... was a Speedy Gonzalez suggestion].

I insert a rod guide, and then clean the barrel. As I'm cleaning the barrel with patches and a nylon brush I note where the brush tends to slow down as I'm pulling it back through the barrel. The areas where it tends to slow down, indicates to me, where carbon buildup exists.

After the barrel is clean, I use 3 to 5 tight fitting patches on a jag [never a brush] to stroke JB, back and forth, through the entire barrel, concentrating in the Freebore, the area where the lands begin, and the areas where I earlier noted a slowdown with the nylon brush.

Once I'm done with JB, I [re]clean the barrel ensuring all the JB has been removed. I can really feel the difference in the smoothness of the barrel when all the carbon has been eliminated. When the bore guide is removed, I clean out the chamber one last time with a 3"X3" patch soaked, again, with Lighter Fluid. This last chamber cleaning ensures all and any remaining cleaning reside is out of the chamber and is simply a quirk of mine.

 

[fdshuster]

Otter: I do unscrew the brush after it clears the muzzle. Hold a rag over the cleaning rod, positioned on top of the buttstock, so the rod is wiped clean after each pass. I have tried using a worn brush so it could be reversed in the bore before exiting the muzzle, but it does not seem to be as effective as a tight one. Also tried JB on a snug fitting patch, but again, as seen with the borescope, not as effective as the brush. I still believe you need the scrapping action of the brush to get the baked-on carbon out, especially in the corners where the lands meet the grooves.

 

[SpiritNugent]

Do you guys bring it in and out of the throat in the chamber, or try to keep it in?

Reason I ask is because of throat erosion possibly from in and out with the strokes on the throat with the abrasive. I try to keep it in but sometimes it "slips" out.

 

[artbosco]

Do you guys bring it in and out of the throat in the chamber, or try to keep it in?

Reason I ask is because of throat erosion possibly from in and out with the strokes on the throat with the abrasive. I try to keep it in but sometimes it "slips" out.

With a back and forth movement, I'm always moving, from the Leade/Freebore, forward, with a tight fitting patch on a jag. When the patch exists the barrel it falls off the jag or is removed by hand. The rod is withdrawn with nothing on it. Note: Whenever I withdraw a cleaning rod from a barrel I immediately wipe it clean. I want all residue removed before reinserting.

You'll never erode the throat with JB. Put some JB between your thumb and index finger and rub them together. I doubt that you will ever feel what some call "the abrasive." To erode the barrel, to any detectable degree, it's going to take 300 to 400 bullets moving at a very high velocity.

 

[wildchild]

Seen for my self the before and after of JB used in a filthy dirty barrel!
It removed the carbon that builds in the fist 4 to 6" of a barrel with authority.
It is used everytime I clean when accuracy falls off usually around 60 rnds in my dasher.
Im a believer and till I see differant will at all times be on my cleaning bench. ;D

 

[SpiritNugent]

You guys sure are a smart bunch of guys. I didn't think many guys used JB...

It's definately good stuff. I do notcie though, there is a different cleaning method for everyone. I heard many times from many people that everyone does it differently of course.

With JB, I never used a brush yet. I always got them finicky stubborn factory barrels clean with a patch soaked in Butch's Bore shine and mixed with a good dose of JB, stroking back and forth until the patch becomes much looser than beginning with.

I had numerous people that use it tell me about the brush idea so many of you guys use though. A slightly undersized brush, or one that is used a good bit and became smaller in diameter, with a patch of JB wrapped around it.

I do know one thing, over the years, the poll results have become much more positive towards the use of JB.

A few years back, 50% of people I talked to wouldn't touch the stuff. Now it seems much more people are seeing the light.

And as someone already stated, Tony Boyer is all I have to hear.

I do know one of the McMillians, I believe it was Gale, strongly advised against it.

 

[fdshuster]

wildchild: JB is so effective, I sometimes find it to be too much of a good thing, removing every trace of all fouling, both copper and carbon. I then find myself having to fire 10 to 15 fouling shots before the barrel starts to shoot it's usual groups again. Hate when that happens since I feel like I'm wasting those fouling shots, both in the cost of the ammo and barrel life. So, I now clean with the objective of just keeping the fouling under control, and if I leave small trace amounts in the bore, I really don't care. Most of the carbon I see with the borescope begins about 4" to 6" in front of the chamber mouth, continues forward for about 8" to 10", and from there to the muzzle the bore is carbon free. TeamRealtreeHD: I think one of the reasons we're hearing more about the use of JB, ( and other cleaners as well) is because so many of us are using Hawkeye borescopes and are able to report what we are actually seeing inside the barrels, for real, no guessing involved. Doing a "before and after" cleaning test can be a real eye opener. p.s.: you started a real thread here/ it's all your fault!

 

[Forum Boss]

Obviously different folks here have developed different regimens for cleaning that serve their purposes and work with their barrels. But my over-riding concern is that some newcomers, who read this thread, may come away with the idea that regular, aggressive cleaning with abrasives is somehow normal or necessary with custom barrels.

It is not. My advice, with custom barrels, is: "Less is More". At least initially, take a minimally invasive approach. Your barrel will tell you what it needs. For most custom barrels it is NOT necessary or even useful to clean all the way down to bare metal every time. (The exception to this is someone like David Tubb, who shoots 200-300 rounds, then cleans to bare metal, then puts 30+ foulers through the gun before shooting for record again).

I have also seen the effects on accuracy of cleaning down to bare metal, most noticeably with one of Gene Beggs' guns which we tested in his West Texas tunnel. After Gene cleaned with his normal cleaning regime, which involved lots of brushing and application of some JB, a gun that was shooting in the mid-ones required about 20 fouling shots before it would even return to 1/4 MOA.

Consider what Frank Shuster observed above: "JB is so effective, I sometimes find it to be too much of a good thing, removing every trace of all fouling, both copper and carbon. I then find myself having to fire 10 to 15 fouling shots before the barrel starts to shoot it's usual groups again. Hate when that happens since I feel like I'm wasting those fouling shots, both in the cost of the ammo and barrel life. So, I now clean with the objective of just keeping the fouling under control, and if I leave small trace amounts in the bore, I really don't care."

My advice to those who have a new custom barrel is to use the least invasive cleaning method that will work. I find it interesting also that I don't use JB and minimize the use of petrochemical solvents, and I don't oil down the bore with Kroil. I also don't have carbon build-up in my custom barrels, using Varget, H4350, and RL15 powders at "stout" pressures. Throat migration is minimal.

There is some anecdotal evidence that the carbon build-up that plagues some shooters is caused, at least in part, by the burn-off of solvents and lubes that shooters leave in their bores. There is also some anecdotal evidence that over-use of JB leads to a vicious cycle by which an over-polished barrel actually fouls more, requiring abrasives with each cleaning. This is something Tim North has seen, and John Krieger has told me he thinks that can happen.

A little bit of JB now and then isn't going to ruin a good barrel. But before you start using the stuff, you should ask if it is necessary at all. Very few shooters I know, even competitive shooters, have actually done testing to find out the round count at which their rifles shoot best. Likewise very few shooters have done any testing to determine whether their barrels shoot best "squeaky clean", i.e. with a mirror finish, and not a hint of black at the land/groove junctions. It may... or it may not.

The bottom line here is that there are as many effective barrel cleaning regimens as there are barrels. I did have one factory barrel which always took over two hours to clean, with multiple applications of Sweets and heavy brushing. That was the ONLY way I could get that barrel to shoot decent for 20 rounds or so (before it fouled again). And one of our testers had a factory Savage with a really rough bore. As a "last resort" he aggressively lapped the bore with hundreds of strokes of JB on a patch and guess what -- fouling abated and accuracy improved. Would I recommend that routine for a new hand-lapped Bartlein? Absolutely not.

At the risk of repeating myself, I want newcomers (with custom barrels) to at least TRY the minimalist approach. You may be surprised how well your gun shoots, and how easily it cleans up... without using abrasives. My very best barrel has never seen a brush in 700 rounds, and not a molecule of JB or Iosso, and the last time we shot the gun it delivered back-to-back three-shot groups in the ones at 200 yards. And yes a borescope inspection shows a very thin line of black at the land-groove intersections, but that has had no negative effect on accuracy.

 

[LCazador]

Wow , at the risk of sounding caustic ;D , most of you guys are where I was twenty years ago before I bought my first bore scope !! Custom barrels do not require heavy cleaning till they hit 800 rounds , beyond that if you want to waste your time thinking they will shoot like they did when they only had two hundred rounds with JB bore paste , go right ahead . Also factory barrels should be used for tomato stakes :! On another note , I really enjoy my old Winchesters for what they are !!

 

[bozo699]

Wow , at the risk of sounding caustic ;D , most of you guys are where I was twenty years ago before I bought my first bore scope !! Custom barrels do not require heavy cleaning till they hit 800 rounds , beyond that if you want to waste your time thinking they will shoot like they did when they only had two hundred rounds with JB bore paste , go right ahead . Also factory barrels should be used for tomato stakes :! On another note , I really enjoy my old Winchesters for what they are !!

caustic or sarcastic??
Wayne.

 

[dogdude]

just rub some JB between your fingers, there isn't much there to worry about when it comes to abrasiveness. if that stuff is going to damage your stainless STEEL barrel, i'd stay away from any and all bullets. just my 2 cents DOGDUDE

 

[SpiritNugent]

I think the Forum Boss brings up a very, very good point.

While all of us have different cleaning regimens, I have found each barrel is different than the next. And it is best to take that minimal invasive approach one step at a time until you find what gets your barrel clean.

For instance, I had a Savage .223 that would foul so bad, I was ready to sling the thing off the wall. The accuracy it had until it fouled up was keeping me from using it as a tomato stake however. I tried everything in the book, then JB bore paste. Fouling became much less, and the accuracy got even better.

Right now I am tinkering with an Old Remington .222. The rifle shoots pretty good. 1/2" for 5 shots no problem. I didn't touch that barrel with JB yet, and probably won't. After 100 shots out the tube, it doesn't show that it needs it. I have found a good bronze brush and patches takes care of the dirty work. It takes a tad longer than using JB, but it's that "less invasive" approach the Boss is talking about here...

I have guns in between that spectrum that need a little less and a little more cleaning time/techniques.


In a nutshell, JB only comes out of the jar when needed... and I think that's a good point to make. If it's not needed, I see no use in using it.

 

[alf]

The best example I have is/was a 6x47 Improved (222 mag necked up)that I shot for prairie dogs. I retired that barrel at 7500 rounds. It was cleaned religiously ever 100 rounds using gobs of JB.

That barrel was shittcanned because it was wore out from shooting,

not from the ill effects of JB......

 

[Jim See]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/rifle-barrel-break-in-1.php

This article and the ensuing discussion is worth reading weather you agree with it or not.
I wrote it so I guess it is the best source for information on the subject ;D

 

[bozo699]

Guy's I read Jims article a couple of years ago and it was a great read, and if not mistaken there was a forum debate afterwords that was also a good read. I like the long range hunting forum and probably would have never left and came over here to 6br had Lens site loaded faster than cold molasses ???
Wayne.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Last resort. Use with caution and sparingly. Flush your barrel thoroughly after use.

I use it after every 35 to 50 rounds [between yardages] on my Krieger Barrels. It does an excellent job. Here's what two very recognizable sources have to say about JB Bore Cleaning Compound:

"I personally believe in the use of JB Bore Cleaner... I use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get the powder fouling out... I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel. ... Tony Boyer"

Source: The Benchrest Shooting Primer, ON THE TOPIC OF BARRELS, by Tony Boyer, Page 349, upper left.
-----------------------------------
Krieger Barrels Inc,: Q&A

Q: Will a paste-type bore cleaner such as J.B. hurt a barrel during cleaning?

A: No. There is nothing that we can find that shows that it will harm the barrel provided you use a rod guide and refrain from exiting the muzzle.
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Instructions received from Krieger along with my Krieger barrel: Break-In and Cleaning, Under Cleaning:

"Abrasive cleaners work well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of of polishing the throat both in 'break in' and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life."

Just a question how many competitive rounds you getting out of one of your barrels on average?

 

[artbosco]

Just a question how many competitive rounds you getting out of one of your barrels on average?

I'm about to change out my 6PPC after about 1500 competitive and practice rounds. The 30BR has about 1000 competitive and practice, and I expect the average of 6000 to 7000. The 30BR doesn't wear out the barrel as fast as the 6PPC. You might read these: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmppc/ and http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/