Irregular shoulder bumps

[Hermantk]

I have been getting significantly different results from one piece of brass to the next. My brass is all annealed (AMP annealer) after every shot. I set the Redding S die, and get 2.5 thou bump on one case, 5 thou on the next, etc. The fellow at Redding said that the problem is tolerances in my equipment...that the co-as press does not do a really good cam-over, in addition to which small amounts of tolerance in the Forster co ax press linkage are adding up and causing the difference. My problem is that, this amount of total tolerance slip should be the same for all pieces of brass. He suggested that i try the competition shell holders, which i now have on order. But if the problem is press tolerances, then the use of the comp shell holders will not fix that problem. Nor will moving to a Warner die or Whidden click or...
Any suggestions?

 

[ballisticdaddy]

Not sure what you are using for lubricant but some of the sizing waxes, especially when it gets cold, are difficult to apply evenly. Are you sizing all the same brass or are there different brands?

 

[JFrank]

I have been getting significantly different results from one piece of brass to the next. My brass is all annealed (AMP annealer) after every shot. I set the Redding S die, and get 2.5 thou bump on one case, 5 thou on the next, etc. The fellow at Redding said that the problem is tolerances in my equipment...that the co-as press does not do a really good cam-over, in addition to which small amounts of tolerance in the Forster co ax press linkage are adding up and causing the difference. My problem is that, this amount of total tolerance slip should be the same for all pieces of brass. He suggested that i try the competition shell holders, which i now have on order. But if the problem is press tolerances, then the use of the comp shell holders will not fix that problem. Nor will moving to a Warner die or Whidden click or...
Any suggestions?

Don't think a different shell holder is required there should be clearance under shell holder for adjustment " (without brass) use a feeler gauge under the shell holder with full ram extension

Excess lube can cause inconsistency

Before you spend money clean your Dies take a few measurements

 

[Longtrain]

Excess lube can cause inconsistency
Before you spend money clean your Dies take a few measurements

+1 on all the posts identifying lube as a possible issue. I use only Imperial Sizing Wax, rubbing my index finger across the wax and then use my index finger and thumb to coat the neck, shoulder and most of the body. Very, very little on the case. Once my dies are set, I get after annealing, consistent bump, usually 2 thousandths of an inch for my Dasher. If I put too much lube on the case, which is really easy to do, it may easily go 5 thousandths or more. They go into a box for fouling shots.

Do clean your dies of dirt and excess lube and as mentioned, start again, measuring each case before sizing and record the bump after you size.

N.B. if you're using a spray lube, IMO, you'll always have consistency issues. I used One-Shot for a while for XTC, overall it worked, but not with the consistency you get with Imperial Wax and careful preparation.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The Redding competition shell holders allows the die to make hard contact with the shell holder. This eliminates any slop in the press and gives you more uniform shoulder location.

My Rockchucker press is 45 years old and has slop in the linkage. And using the competition shell holders and having hard contact with the die gives much better results.

Also pausing at the top of the ram stroke for 4 or 5 seconds reduces brass spring back. The only problem I have with shoulder location is if the sizing lube is forced upward and builds up in the shoulder of the die. Almost all lubes will migrate upward when squeezed and compressed in the die. The only lube I have never had effect the shoulder location is Hornady One Shot.

 

[243winxb]

As said above. Shell holder needs to contact botton of sizing die.

 

[JFrank]

As said above. Shell holder needs to contact botton of sizing die.

Under compression or at idle?
I'm not following that, with the ram fully extended and the Die screwed down tight how can you adjust the headspace without using a micro adjust top?

 

[243winxb]

how can you adjust the headspace without using a micro adjust top?

Redding competition shell holders.

Now you can control headspace. The new Redding Competition Shellholders are packaged in five piece sets in .002” increments (+.002”, +.004”. +.006”, +.008” and +.010”). Each shellholder has a distinct black oxide finish and is clearly marked to indicate the amount it will decrease case-to-chamber headspace. You can now easily adjust the shoulder bump to customize cases to your specific chamber.

 

[JFrank]

Redding competition shell holders.

Humm
I prefer a feeler gauge "
Maybe it's the Guffey effect

 

[BenPerfected]

I have been getting significantly different results from one piece of brass to the next. My brass is all annealed (AMP annealer) after every shot. I set the Redding S die, and get 2.5 thou bump on one case, 5 thou on the next, etc. The fellow at Redding said that the problem is tolerances in my equipment...that the co-as press does not do a really good cam-over, in addition to which small amounts of tolerance in the Forster co ax press linkage are adding up and causing the difference. My problem is that, this amount of total tolerance slip should be the same for all pieces of brass. He suggested that i try the competition shell holders, which i now have on order. But if the problem is press tolerances, then the use of the comp shell holders will not fix that problem. Nor will moving to a Warner die or Whidden click or...
Any suggestions?

First, resize a few pc of brass using a heavy shot of spray lube. If this doesn't do it, consider taking a few .001 off the bottom if your die if it is bottoming out on the shell plate.
Ben

 

[dolek]

Humm
I prefer a feeler gauge "
Maybe it's the Guffey effect

Comp shell holders fine tune ,it's a nice feature .

 

[Uncle Ed]

Humm
I prefer a feeler gauge "
Maybe it's the Guffey effect

And if you have any wear in the press linkage you will have variations in shoulder location using feller gauges and a air gap between the shell holder and die. And when the die makes hard contact with the shell holder there is no more slop in the equation.

Redding made these shell holder for a good reason.................it gets rid of the Guffey effect.

 

[JFrank]

Humm,
You realize the feeler doesn't remain during sizing I'm sure.

No problems at all, nothing extra to purchase, no run out problems
Just a feeler gauge and threaded dies to adjust headspace.
Bit of slack in the shell holder hasn't effected anything on my end.
I musta learned a couple a things from (the only one who understands reloading )after all.

 

[dolek]

Some folks like things perfect ,to some it is not all that critical.

 

[Hermantk]

Thanks guys. I guess i did not explain myself well. I shoot f-class and consistency in just about everything is critical. So, If I get one at 2 thou bump, the next one at 4 and a half thou and the next one at something else, then the seating depth, and therefore the case's hold on the neck, and therefore MV, and vertical printing on t he target will be different. If I get a consistent bump, I am ok. Hope that helps you to help me.

 

[JFrank]

When you get a consistent headspace please report back your findings and solution.

 

[Toejoe12]

As many have said here double check your lube and die cleanliness. If I read correctly you are using a Co-AX press? If so make sure the tension adjustment screw on the top left where you slide and "click" your die in and out has enough tension to remove any unnecessary slope with the die. The die floats but needs enough tension from that set screw to prevent excessive movement which could ultimately lead to inconsistency. If adjusted correctly you will fill some slight resistance just before the lock ring hits the back of the press

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If you get any lube at all on the necks this will be your end result. Only lube the bottom half of the case with imperial and keep it real thin

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I went through this same thing awhile back with my 243. First I would not anneal every time you shoot the brass, I anneal mine every fourth reload. Second like Dusty said no lube on the neck it just gets pushed down into the shoulder junction and causes these weird issues, too much and you'll start seeing dents or wrinkles. If you can get the results you want with some brass and not others there clearly has to be something going on changing from one to another, could be a build up of lube or the brass is just not consistent being annealed every reload?

 

[Texas10]

I had this issue on a couple of my chamberings, but especially the 243. As the expander was drawn back through the neck, if it wasn't lubed well the expander would drag the neck forward giving me inconsistent base to shoulder measurements. So I had to lube the snot out of the inside of the case to get good consistency, and then clean thoroughly. PITA.