Redding Full Length Sizing Die Bumps Shoulder In Wrong Direction

[dsculley]

If you guys will take the time to ponder his responses, FGuffey is trying to give you the benefit of many years of experience. The problem is you don't talk the same language so it really does make you have to think to understand what he is saying. Before you start attacking him, you really should rad and think.

To FGuffey, just remember the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"!

 

[jerseyjoe]

If you guys will take the time to ponder his responses, FGuffey is trying to give you the benefit of many years of experience. The problem is you don't talk the same language so it really does make you have to think to understand what he is saying. Before you start attacking him, you really should rad and think.

To FGuffey, just remember the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"!

There may be some truth in your statement but he treats everybody like they are idiots.

Here's another old saying:

If you meet someone and think they are an idiot, they are probably an idiot.

If you think everyone you meet is an idiot, you are the idiot.

 

[Bart B.]

So are you saying that after fire forming that the material at the scribed line is still the shoulder even though it is not a shoulder????

He has claimed that for years; perhaps decades.

He cannot fathom anyone measuring a rimless bottleneck case the same way you measure the GO headspace gauge for its chamber or the chamber itself. Head to the same reference diameter on its shoulder. And calling that dimension the same name for both gauge and case is not plausible, correct, useful nor meaningful.

 

[fguffey]

He has claimed that for years; perhaps decades.

Bart B. You can not be that desperate for attentions, you made the claim you have been doing this for decades and you included others, and I wondered; You can read, I said SAAMI does not have head space symbol for case drawings, you insisted and then you called SAAMI, I am sure after you told them about your self and they were impressed but nothing changed, the case does not have head space. I did not call SAAMI, I would not put someone on the spot and I could not believe they took you seriously. Anyhow, they did not call me to straighten me out. Same for RCBS, members reported me to RCBS; they told RCBS I said the Rock Chucker did not cam over. I had no ideal I was dealing with such lazy people, they will not up from the key board to measure cam travel, they will not turn their Rock Chuckers over and check the linkage. My linkage goes into a bind and locks up, when my Rock Chucker locks up the ram is shoved back at the bottom and the top of the ram is kicked forward.

I called RCBS with a problem, something went wrong with the handle, I shoved it forward and then the ram fell out the bottom of the press and hit the floor. I explained to them what happened and they said they would send me a new one and I ask; "a new what" they said a new ram and kit. Point; I was not going to trade my Rock Chucker for a new one. There is no one that can talk fast enough to convince me the Rock Chucker cams over, I have tried to sneak up on it like it, it is possible I am the only reloader that has enough initiative, skills and tools to measure how much a ram bumps at the top when it cams over. And then there are those that just talk about it.

Treats everyone like idiots? I measured the cam over on a RCBS A2 press, it had .014", and I believe I would be hard pressed to find a reloader that understands what that means and how the old man with the A2 managed to get .014" cam over.

F. Guffey

 

[Bart B.]

An easy way to adjust one's die in.002" height increments is to use this:



That label is courtesy of Unclenick and here's the site they come from:

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab170/jepp2/DieAdjustment-1.jpg

 

[Milo 2.0]

Bart B. You can not be that desperate for attentions, you made the claim you have been doing this for decades and you included others, and I wondered; You can read, I said SAAMI does not have head space symbol for case drawings, you insisted and then you called SAAMI, I am sure after you told them about your self and they were impressed but nothing changed, the case does not have head space. I did not call SAAMI, I would not put someone on the spot and I could not believe they took you seriously. Anyhow, they did not call me to straighten me out. Same for RCBS, members reported me to RCBS; they told RCBS I said the Rock Chucker did not cam over. I had no ideal I was dealing with such lazy people, they will not up from the key board to measure cam travel, they will not turn their Rock Chuckers over and check the linkage. My linkage goes into a bind and locks up, when my Rock Chucker locks up the ram is shoved back at the bottom and the top of the ram is kicked forward.

I called RCBS with a problem, something went wrong with the handle, I shoved it forward and then the ram fell out the bottom of the press and hit the floor. I explained to them what happened and they said they would send me a new one and I ask; "a new what" they said a new ram and kit. Point; I was not going to trade my Rock Chucker for a new one. There is no one that can talk fast enough to convince me the Rock Chucker cams over, I have tried to sneak up on it like it, it is possible I am the only reloader that has enough initiative, skills and tools to measure how much a ram bumps at the top when it cams over. And then there are those that just talk about it.

Treats everyone like idiots? I measured the cam over on a RCBS A2 press, it had .014", and I believe I would be hard pressed to find a reloader that understands what that means and how the old man with the A2 managed to get .014" cam over.

F. Guffey

Who really cares? Who? Most of us set our dies and use the cam over feature as a stopping point, adj your die one way or the other for desired results, big fricken deal. Quit patting yourself on the back like you've pioneered something in this game.

 

[fguffey]

Quit patting yourself on the back like you've pioneered something in this game.

I have always said there has to be something about threads Bart. B. dies not understand and precision tools,, there has to be something about precision tools he does not understand. It was not that long ago reloaders got all giggly about shims, it is a choice but reloaders should understand why they are using them; if they knew shy they would understand why shims are not necessary.

I do believe the little degree wheel is cute but I ask; How could a reloader check their work?

F. Guffey

 

[Bart B.]

I do believe the little degree wheel is cute but I ask; How could a reloader check their work?

Measure case headspace before and after full length sizing with a Hornady or RCBS case headspace tool. Or a 3/8" ID nylon bushing and caliper shown below on a 30-06 case as an example setting the shoulder back .001" .

 

[fguffey]

Measure case headspace before and after full length sizing with a Hornady or RCBS case headspace tool. Or a 3/8" ID nylon bushing and caliper shown below on a 30-06 case as an example setting the shoulder back .001"

I said I thought there was something you did not understand about threads, I did not ask you to prove it.

And now you have discovered the Hornady/Sinclair comparator, I have told you and told you the Hornady/Sinclair gage is not a head space gage, it is a comparator.. I have told you and told you Hornady/Sinclair could not figure a way to make a datum. They insisted on making case friendly datums? Meaning they added a radius to the edge of the datum, reloaders do not understand if the edge of the datum is not 90 degree to the plain the datum is not the surface of the plain; the radius drops the datum below the surface. I know, you are confused because Wilson uses a datum with a radius on the datum in all of their case gages. Back to knowing how to make a datum, I make datums but my datums are not like Wilsons, my datums are not case friendly.

I can understand you getting all giggly about nylon, I want a sharp edge on my datums and I do not want compressibility, but? If I do not have a sharp edge on the datum and or the datum is made of soft material I am one of the few that can use the tool as a comparator and If I want to make an accurate measurement I can always drag another tool out and verify the gage.

Again, I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the case head.

I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, I can not move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. I can move the shoulder back on a case with home made dies; problem, moving the shoulder back with a die that does not have case body support creates baffles or something that looks like an accordion of the case body.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I do believe the little degree wheel is cute but I ask; How could a reloader check their work?

I said I thought the little degree wheel was cute and I said there had to be something you do not understand about threads. I suggest you think more and cut and paste less. Who are you going to call now?

F. Guffey

 

[Bart B.]

moving the shoulder back with a die that does not have case body support creates baffles or something that looks like an accordion of the case body.

Neil Jones bushing neck sizing dies with shoulders do that without wrinkling case bodies; they've done that for decades.

Right now, the score is you, nothing; me and others, lots. Wanna keep playing this stupid game?

 

[fguffey]

Neil Jones bushing neck sizing dies with shoulders do that without wrinkling case bodies;

I am not a name dropper, I do have neck sizing dies, I have lots of neck sizing dies, I do not have a neck sizing die that contacts the shoulder meaning there is no way the case can wrinkle because the ability of the die to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head is limited. About being able to read: I said I turn cases into bellows, looking at the case from the side the case looks like an accordion, I understand; you are confused, I can move the shoulders back with dies that do not have case body support, I find it impossible to move a shoulder back with a die that has case body support.

Reloaders have made mistakes when seating bullets, they have crushed the case when seating bullets, the crush happens at the shoulder/case body juncture. The seating die does not have case body support. I understand that is almost impossible for a reloader/shooter like yourself to grasp. The crushing of the case causes the case to bulge below the shoulder, it is not that I have perfected the practice, I will say I can form bellows below the shoulder/case body juncture. And YES! There was a purposed for the bellows/accordion looking rings on the cases.

F. Guffey

 

[KMart]

Oh, dang! CAT FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fguffey]

the score is you, nothing; me and others, lots. Wanna keep playing this stupid game?

I said there has to be something you do not understand about threads and adjusting dies. I did say the little degree wheel is cute and then I asked you about verifying the adjustments. Again, the case has an ability to resist sizing, to off set the cases ability to resist sizing the reloader lowers the die after contact. There is the 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn etc.. and there is the cute little degree wheel and then there is verifying. A reloader with shop skills understands verifying; point? If a reloader can verify why would he use the cute little degree wheel, or shims.

And then there are those that secures the lock ring to the die, when making adjustments is the reloader removing slack between the threads, stressing the threads or marring the two surfaces between the press and lock ring. One more time, I adjust the die and then secure the die to the press with the lock ring; I hold the die and then turn the lock ring to secure the die to the press.

And then there is the case whipping the press. that happens when the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome.
the score is you, nothing; me and others, lots. Wanna keep playing this stupid game?

When you back the die off using the degree wheel you are not adjusting the die to size as in shortening the case from the shoulder to the case head, you are decreasing the presses ability to sized the case. And that brings up another problem, some cases have more resistance to sizing than others. SO if you make an adjustment verify the adjustment and do not assume the press won when sizing, again there are times the case wins.

F. Guffey

 

[Bart B.]

When you back the die off using the degree wheel you are not adjusting the die to size as in shortening the case from the shoulder to the case head, you are decreasing the presses ability to sized the case.

If this was "The Gong Show," the mallet would be swinging towards that huge bronze disk hung at stage rear.

This cat's purring. Bye bye........

 

[fguffey]

If this was "The Gong Show," the mallet would be swinging towards that huge bronze disk hung at stage rear.

This cat's purring. Bye bye........

You called SAAMI, and SAAMI said the case does not have head space. And then you post something that silly, it is no wonder they did not take you seriously. Again, there is something about threads you do not understand. And there is something about verifying you do not understand.

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

goofy you have been full of it for a long time.
Every post you make is proof of it.
You don't know how to answer a question because you have never answered one yet.

And then there was one of the fast thinkers among smiths; he was fast, other smiths did not understand what and or how he was doing 'it' so they got all snarky, all they had to do was ask.. I ask myself: What is it he is doing that the other smiths did not understand? It took me all of 10 minutes to figure it out.

F. Guffey

You guys seem to be in mortal combat with the key board and reloading, not me; this stuff does not drive me to the curb nor does it lock me up; you need to learn to relax your mind.