Interesting and Revealing Ammunition Article

[snert]

So if I am reading this "right" in the past the courts would have been open to looking into a case of monopoly (anti-trust) when it comes to Vista etc. As I consider that option I am actually terrified, because a more likely scenario, given the mood and philosophy of the courts, is that they "investigate" and then pressure the businesses to stop selling to the public.

"What, are you nuts, Snert"?

hear me out:

In our woke world, social credit is given to those people and corporations that adhere to the "line" . Currently, our hobby is viewed as a public health threat. So...the DOJ anti-trust prosecutors look into the "unfair" marketing and distribution practices, threaten the industry, rattle swords about how they are selling products that are a public health risk, are socially irresponsible, and the industry then is encouraged to respond with token repentance, cutting off commercial sales to the public to absolve themselves from this "sin". They get a two-fer. They get to then continue to provide ammo to the government/corporation and no one questions it, and they get the social credit (and moral self-righteousness playing to the loud and proud crowd) for doing it. Not to mention the favor of the 'corpogovernment' consisting of the unholy alliance of Big Tech and government.

Of course Vista are then even more "in" because they only lost a small portion of their "profitability" while keeping and growing the market to the government.

Read the latest Hillsdale Imprimis article regarding the great reset. Then call snert an idiot. But not till then.

 

[ronsatspokane]

At the risk of offending a few with the hard truth, please consider; big corporations are in business to make money. Period.
But also consider that ALL publicaly traded companies bow down at the “Wall Street Altar.” As the execs humbly and fearfully present themselves annually before the throne, they are told what their future earnings expectations are. Woe to all who fail to meet these goals!
So they cheat, they lie, they steal, they short the packaging, their employee benefits...whatever it takes. And no one realizes or blames those who really turned up the heat on the pressure cooker.
And however it works out, the wizard behind the curtain is forever blameless.

This is true. What many fail to realize is that the wizard behind the curtain can be spotted in the nearest mirror. These are public companies. There are ~60 million 401k accounts active in the US. There is much more invested in public and private sector pensions such as those managed by Russel who have their own index. Then again we have the individual IRA's and private investment. We have people on this very forum who are invested in Vista (wish I would have bought some early on). It is estimated that just in terms of IRA's, 401k's, pubic and private pensions that there is over 37 trillion USD invested in the market between bonds and stocks. It ain't a couple of rich folks, it's all you rich folks and the people you hire to manage your funds who are to blame. If you don't like it, just tell your fund managers that you want to loose money on your investments rather than have monetary gain.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Corporations are not your friend... and if you are so scared of your own government that the idea of challenging the large corporations when they criminally treat consumers to benefit themselves, then this is not America...

Of course, America is not America... The American idea was never about allowing the rich to subjugate the poor while the subjugated cower in fear.

 

[Rsadams]

I started shooting skeet when COVID started.... Since then I have seen shotgun reloading supplies go away , then come back slightly and now skyrocketed up in price.... Shot $56 a bag and worse than that I have seen cheddite primers at $50+ a thousand at BPM when they have them.... They have basically priced me out of skeet shooting.... I will keep going but slowing way down and trying to find crap factory loads close or the same as reloading them....

Now I get 9mm , .223 etc because people have bought tons more of these kinds of weapons to defend themselves.... Just look at the run on guns in Beverly hills where there's only one dealer and he is having a ball..... What I can't understand is why stuff like #8 or #9 shot for shotgun or even pretty much all primers and shotgun powder have disappeared or jumped in price where you can't even afford them anymore... Who is using low power #8-9 shot for defense...????? If you are you need to reevaluate your situation.... All this is totally BS and just wait till that idiot wakes up from his nappy time and actually says gun ban....

 

[Ned Ludd]

Apparently, the "geniuses" in Vista's business plan department fail to appreciate that they may actually lose a significant number of customers if the market remains at its current high price/low supply status. I have seen a number of members here state that they will simply stop shooting if this situation goes on much longer. Like many other things, economic processes have a strong tendency to be self-regulating, especially when corporations decide to price some of their customers out of the market.

 

[tominboise]

This is true. What many fail to realize is that the wizard behind the curtain can be spotted in the nearest mirror. These are public companies. There are ~60 million 401k accounts active in the US. There is much more invested in public and private sector pensions such as those managed by Russel who have their own index. Then again we have the individual IRA's and private investment. We have people on this very forum who are invested in Vista (wish I would have bought some early on). It is estimated that just in terms of IRA's, 401k's, pubic and private pensions that there is over 37 trillion USD invested in the market between bonds and stocks. It ain't a couple of rich folks, it's all you rich folks and the people you hire to manage your funds who are to blame. If you don't like it, just tell your fund managers that you want to loose money on your investments rather that have monetary gain.

This - nobody likes capitalists unless they are managing the IRA/401K. Then we love them.

 

[INTJ]

Apparently, the "geniuses" in Vista's business plan department fail to appreciate that they may actually lose a significant number of customers if the market remains at its current high price/low supply status. I have seen a number of members here state that they will simply stop shooting if this situation goes on much longer. Like many other things, economic processes have a strong tendency to be self-regulating, especially when corporations decide to price some of their customers out of the market.

So why would they build a new $1 billion ammo plant when the customers will go away before it's complete?

 

[Ned Ludd]

So why would they build a new $1 billion ammo plant when the customers will go away before it's complete?

Good question. Perhaps they believe customers won't go away. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what will actually happen. None of us can know right now with any certainty how all of this will actually play out over the next couple years, or even longer. But some people have long memories, and corporate greed doesn't always pay off over the long run.

 

[bline]

If you’re a firearm manufacturer, or a firearm accessory manufacturer, a behemoth who controls the ammunition industry is not your friend. How long until those remaining [not yet controlled by Vista] decide they’ve had enough and they form their own ammunition & components business?

Wow, wouldn't that be great? And, there is a tremendous market for reloading components. It's not Microsoft, but it is something that I think would fill a niche and make a profit.

 

[ronsatspokane]

This - nobody likes capitalists unless they are managing the IRA/401K. Then we love them.

Most have no idea who is managing their 401k, IRA, Pension, Keogh or often the individual mutual funds they invest in. Regardless, they have provided those managers a license to do everything in their power to earn a return on that investment. Some would say that we are our own worst enemy. I would say that we are building for retirement.

 

[INTJ]

Good question. Perhaps they believe customers won't go away. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what will actually happen. None of us can know right now with any certainty how all of this will actually play out over the next couple years, or even longer. But some people have long memories, and corporate greed doesn't always pay off over the long run.

I guess that is where I differ with many here. I don't see a corporation trying to maximize its profits as greed. Maximizing profits in good times is the only way they can survive bad times.

I had the privilege/misfortune of working for a medium size corporation for several years. I got to see them go from making lots of money to losing lots of money more than once.

What I see here typically is complaints about corporations being greedy when they make good profit, then I see the same people talk about how incompetently run they are when the corporation goes bankrupt.

I guess that's just human nature.....

 

[FNSafari]

A half gallon of ice cream hasn’t been a half gallon in years. Same as a pound of bacon that no longer weighs 16 ounces. A quart of Hellman’s Mayo isn’t 32 ounces either. Duke’s on the other hand proudly announces they still provide a quart.

And the Stella Artois I'm drinking as I type this is 11.2 FL. OZ. Going the way of the candy bar.

Congress isn't going to look into price fixing and monopoly questions in the ammo business, as long as the socialist dems are in charge. We need a clean sweep in 11/22.

Primer virtual non-availability going into the 3rd year says it all to me.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It is like liberals and population control.

They love the idea it as long as it is not them being depopulated.

I always tell them "you first".

 

[209jones]

EU and US gov't can choke ammo any time they want, there are only two plants producing the base materials for gunpowder, both gov't owned. Don't know name of European one, Radford Arsenal in US. US shut one down back in 70's or 80's, had Congressional hearings over it to make sure strategic supplies would be adequate, forget the name of that plant that got shut down, transcripts are online.. And don't forget that there are only 2 operators of the powder plants, not sure where it all winds up with all the corporate divison selloffs and splits, but General Dynamics and Bell/ATK ( what ever the latest name is) own them, and serious interests in European plants and ADI in Aus. And now Hodgdon has the bulk of the didtribution.

 

[tominboise]

I guess that is where I differ with many here. I don't see a corporation trying to maximize its profits as greed. Maximizing profits in good times is the only way they can survive bad times.

I had the privilege/misfortune of working for a medium size corporation for several years. I got to see them go from making lots of money to losing lots of money more than once.

What I see here typically is complaints about corporations being greedy when they make good profit, then I see the same people talk about how incompetently run they are when the corporation goes bankrupt.

I guess that's just human nature.....

This mirrors my experience and my opinion.

 

[HandgunHTR]

And the Stella Artois I'm drinking as I type this is 11.2 FL. OZ. Going the way of the candy bar.

Stella is a Belgian beer, which has always been bottled in 330ml bottles. All "regular" Belgian beers are that way. So, while I don't disagree that US based products are getting smaller for the same price, Belgian beers are staying the same.

 

[FNSafari]

Stella is a Belgian beer, which has always been bottled in 330ml bottles. All "regular" Belgian beers are that way. So, while I don't disagree that US based products are getting smaller for the same price, Belgian beers are staying the same.

Didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[CarlGeorge]

I guess that is where I differ with many here. I don't see a corporation trying to maximize its profits as greed. Maximizing profits in good times is the only way they can survive bad times.

I worked for a large corporation most of my career. The company had 7 corporate objectives, listed in priority order. The #1 objective was "Profit". (The remaining 6 were things like a/ Make a technical contribution to the markets we're in.; 2/ Provide a working environment where employees want to stay.; 3/ Be a good member of the communities we're in.; etc.)

Periodically the founders would catch heat from employees about having profit as the number one objective. Their response was brilliant:

"If we aren't profitable we go out of business. And if we go out of business we can't fulfill the remaining 6 corporate objectives."

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Capitalism works best in a MORAL society.....What is "right and fair". When greed begins to entire the picture, obscene profits are the main goal at the expense of everyone else. NO MATTER WHAT....... "I'm getting my piece of the pie no matter what". This attitude is very short sighted and selfish but does provide a lot of money relatively quickly for a select few. After time, it falls into ruins as it is unable to sustain the profits it once had for one reason or another. But those that made the profits are off to the next "bag of money". UNLESS they can create a monopoly. This is what has happened/happening to many of the gun manufacturers such as Remington and is now rolling down hill into the rest of the firearms industry.

The days of "take care of the company, and the company will take care of you" (Moral, Right, and Fair) have been over for a LONG TIME now. Greed has taken over the vast majority of Capitalism now. As long as monopolies are allowed in one form or another, massive profits are the order of the day. As a monopoly, I can set my price by (immoral - NOT Right and NOT Fair) supply/demand manipulation or any other means. You either pay the price I want or do without.

In the case of firearms and ammo.........we are now at the mercy of a legal (so far) monopoly. The MOST scary part is the political climate we are currently in too. The monopoly is going to play to both ends of the political spectrum...........for the purpose of self preservation. They want this narrative to last as long as possible.......strictly to make a profit. IMO an immoral profit.

The answer isn't government oversight or monopoly busting alone but to re-establish "morality" and a long term vision into the market places. Short term profits must be replaced with long term stability. Not likely to happen in this generation though.

As for me.......I am a gnat riding on the back end of an elephant with Diarrhea!!! I have no choice but to suck it up and hang on.......because the alternative is even worse!

After the ammo runs out (God forbid!) all you have is a very expensive club! Something the political left has made it's goal! I just wonder which bed Vista likes to sleep in the most........left wingers are right wingers?

 

[mike a]

I think components are soon to come back because average income folks can afford it no more.