Inertia bullet puller mishap

[wolley]

I own an RCBS collet puller it never damages the bullet unless I'm pulling asphalt sealed milsurp rounds and those bullets are junk anyway.
I've used the Hornady camlock and it works very well also. If I were to buy again I would opt for the Hornady.

What sets off the compound in a primer? What are you doing when you whack an inertia puller against something hard? Surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does.

 

[stool]

What sets off the compound in a primer? What are you doing when you whack an inertia puller against something hard? Surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does.

duhhh
look at what it takes to DETONATE a primer. it is an IMPACT EXPLOSIVE.
it is in an area of no direct impact......NOTHING touches the primer in an impact puller.
it is held in place in line with the impact by the case..with NOTHING inline to IMPACT IT...nothing....
the cup would have to deform and impact the anvil going thru and detonating the compound....
HOW ???
SAME AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION...how ???

 

[Catfur]

What sets off the compound in a primer? What are you doing when you whack an inertia puller against something hard? Surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does.

duhhh
look at what it takes to DETONATE a primer. it is an IMPACT EXPLOSIVE.
it is in an area of no direct impact......NOTHING touches the priemer in an impact puller.
it is held in place in line with the impact by the case..with NOTHING inline to IMPACT IT...nothing....
the cup would have to deform and impact the anvil going thru and detonating the compound....
HOW ???
SAME AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION...how ???

No, it's a SHOCK SENSITIVE explosive (although certainly not the most shock sensitive out there). There are shock sensitive explosives so sensitive you can set them off by talking crossly to them. Plenty touches the primer with an impact puller, specifically the primer pocket walls, which transmit force to the primer (or it would never have remained in the pocket).

 

[VaniB]

I've never heard of such a thing before. Anybody else ever heard of this? As many years that I've used inertia pullers without incident, I can't imagine how this occurred. I'll worry about this happening to me and wear goggles accordingly for it.......just like I'll wear a helmet in case of loose bolts from aircraft....or those falling prices at Walmart.

 

[Catfur]

I've never heard of such a thing before. Anybody else ever heard of this? As many years that I've used inertia pullers without incident, I can't imagine how this occurred. I'll worry about this happening to me and wear goggles accordingly for it.......just like I'll wear a helmet in case of loose bolts from aircraft....or those falling prices at Walmart.

If you bang out 1000 bullets in a lifetime, it may never happen to you, if a forum with thousands of members does the same thing, it may happen to several. The law of large numbers (YOU almost certainly aren't going to win the lotto jackpot, SOMEONE almost certainly will).

 

[BoydAllen]

Whatever you take away from this, whether you continue with inertia or not, I think that there is only an up side to wearing eye protection when you reload, and for that matter shoot. End of plug.

 

[stool]

sorry but you are not correct.
firing pins IMPACT THE PRIMER CUP, CAUSING SIGNIFICANT friction of the compound between the cup and the anvil....this causes detonation.

Primers may explode if subjected to mishandling.
Explosions may be caused by friction and by percussion,
such as hammering, pounding, dropping or bullet impact.

the one point that has not be addressed and is possible, is STATIC electricity.....
but there is no place for impact in a impact bullet puller...

What sets off the compound in a primer? What are you doing when you whack an inertia puller against something hard? Surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does.

duhhh
look at what it takes to DETONATE a primer. it is an IMPACT EXPLOSIVE.
it is in an area of no direct impact......NOTHING touches the priemer in an impact puller.
it is held in place in line with the impact by the case..with NOTHING inline to IMPACT IT...nothing....
the cup would have to deform and impact the anvil going thru and detonating the compound....
HOW ???
SAME AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION...how ???

No, it's a SHOCK SENSITIVE explosive (although certainly not the most shock sensitive out there). There are shock sensitive explosives so sensitive you can set them off by talking crossly to them. Plenty touches the primer with an impact puller, specifically the primer pocket walls, which transmit force to the primer (or it would never have remained in the pocket).

 

[K22]

Wow, I've used one for years and never had a problem like this one. However I'm seriously thinking about changing over to a collet type puller.

Thanks for the warning - one of the nice things about this web site.

 

[kentcroy]

Years ago, I had a primer go off, a 210M in a swaged military .308 case, I left it in the ceiling above my reloading bench as a conversation piece. As I remember, the bullets were seated tight, my Dad's old Herters die, I was whacking it fairly hard against the top of my reloading press to dislodge the bullets as I had done many times before, then BANG, the primer went straight up and stuck in the drywall of the ceiling. I'm certain that there was more than .002" neck tension, and since that day I tap lightly, using just enough force to unseat the bullet with about six impacts. I was amazed the the powder didn't ignite. But, I'm pretty sure some pee came out. ;D

 

[VaniB]

I've never heard of such a thing before. Anybody else ever heard of this? As many years that I've used inertia pullers without incident, I can't imagine how this occurred. I'll worry about this happening to me and wear goggles accordingly for it.......just like I'll wear a helmet in case of loose bolts from aircraft....or those falling prices at Walmart.

If you bang out 1000 bullets in a lifetime, it may never happen to you, if a forum with thousands of members does the same thing, it may happen to several. The law of large numbers (YOU almost certainly aren't going to win the lotto jackpot, SOMEONE almost certainly will).

Thank you. I couldn't have explained it better myself. (Oh.....and why I also never waste my time and money buying lottery tickets either.)

 

[Old Navy]

I started reloading back in 67 with a Lee hand loading kit. The seating tool consisted of a anvil that the primer set on. A case was set on the primer. A rod went down in the case. You then smacked the rod with a nylon hammer driving the case down and over the primer seating it. Impact all the way. Never had a problem with standard primers but set off quite a few CCI mags. Quite exciting to say the least. Later! Frank

 

[Syncrowave]

I feel the only way a primer can ignite is from impact on the back of the primer.

What about impact BY the back of the primer?

the entire force of an impact bullet puller is in one direction, and the primer is in the open with NOTHING TO CONTACT IT.

...except the mass of the primer cup itself:

Primer cup moves toward anvil.
Anvil doesn't move.
BOOM

If you accelerate or decelerate it hard enough, a feather can have a weight of thousands of tons (which is why impact pullers work). I don't know how fast/hard you need to swing an inertia-type bullet puller to decelerate a primer cup enough to ignite the priming mixture, but apparently our OP found out.

 

[Alexander-M]

And what kept the powder from igniting?

The only thing I can think of is that something, such as a granule of tumbling media, may have been lodged in the primer hole.

But if the probability of a primer going off in this fashion (inertia puller) is extremely low, the probability of a primer going off as such, AND that this round happened to be the one with the flash hole blocked, approaches the astronomical realm.

Nando

 

[stool]

right ,
we will completely ignore the fact that the primer cup has walls, that support the primer and prevent forward movement to the anvil...
you know that silly part where a firing pin steps in and impact, deforms the cup and starts the normal ignition process

I feel the only way a primer can ignite is from impact on the back of the primer.

What about impact BY the back of the primer?

the entire force of an impact bullet puller is in one direction, and the primer is in the open with NOTHING TO CONTACT IT.

...except the mass of the primer cup itself:

Primer cup moves toward anvil.
Anvil doesn't move.
BOOM

If you accelerate or decelerate it hard enough, a feather can have a weight of thousands of tons (which is why impact pullers work). I don't know how fast/hard you need to swing an inertia-type bullet puller to decelerate a primer cup enough to ignite the priming mixture, but apparently our OP found out.

 

[bouddha]

Setting aside the primer ignition cause for a moment, my question is how did that primer escape the confines of the IBP? Isn't there a cap that screws on, also holding the collet in place?

 

[jhord]

Maybe the primer was really smashed in there and the cup was right on the anvil. Then there was enough vibration or flex in the cup to set it off.

 

[savagedasher]

Setting aside the primer ignition cause for a moment, my question is how did that primer escape the confines of the IBP? Isn't there a cap that screws on, also holding the collet in place?

It didn't the nut that hold it broke and went flying just like two of Mine did .No primer would go off in the presence of powder and no blow the whole thing up. The only way a primer would go off is if it fell out. If the primers were that loose why would you load a case to begin with. Way too many thing don't align. Larry

 

[Syncrowave]

And what kept the powder from igniting?

My guess would be the lack of a breech to prevent the primer from backing out. In other words, it took less pressure to pop the primer back out of its pocket than it took to either blow the case or move the bullet forward.

Since the primer backed out before the case blew up or the bullet moved forward, presumably all the hot gas and fire went backward instead of forward and for that reason never reached the powder.

right ,
we will completely ignore the fact that the primer cup has walls, that support the primer and prevent forward movement to the anvil...
you know that silly part where a firing pin steps in and impact, deforms the cup and starts the normal ignition process

If you've got a better explanation, I'm all ears.

 

[fguffey]

This is not the first time, one of the other times?

A reloader was in a crowd, he blew the hammer head off the handle. As expected the event scared him and every one was pleased no one was hurt.

AND THEN?: The shell holder was blamed, I have no problem with using shell holders, I do not have the problems shared by everyone else because my shell holders hold the case in the center meaning the case can not move far enough to allow the primer to get under the shell holder, and I use small rubber 'O' rings on cases with small diameters.

Then there is some? safety built into the shell holder, not for everyone, it is like trying to making something fool proof, fools do not read. There are shell holders that will tolerate a high primer, there are shell holders that will not allow a case to be removed from it with a high primer.

If the shell holder contacts the primer, how did the case with the high primer get into the shell holder?

My fault, I said no one said the primer was properly seated, I did not read the second response by the OP, I only read his first. I said pulling bullets from cases with high primers is a bad habit. Then there is R. Lee and his book on modern reloading. He said he did not test Federal primers because Federal did not donate primers to be tested. If not for Federal premiers I would be 'almost' be out of primers.

R. Lee did post the speed of exiting primers, I did post "No one knows the speed of the primer pushing off of the case", I omitted that information because I felt someone would ask me to read the book for them or furnish the page #.

then there was the profile shooter, he carried his loaded ammo in plastic baggies. He dropped one, he almost bleed to death before he got to the hospital. When he dropped the bag of loose ammo the rim on one case hit the primer of another case. The exiting primer struck an artery.

F. Guffey

 

[StemCell]

Years ago, I had a primer go off, a 210M in a swaged military .308 case, I left it in the ceiling above my reloading bench as a conversation piece. As I remember, the bullets were seated tight, my Dad's old Herters die, I was whacking it fairly hard against the top of my reloading press to dislodge the bullets as I had done many times before, then BANG, the primer went straight up and stuck in the drywall of the ceiling. I'm certain that there was more than .002" neck tension, and since that day I tap lightly, using just enough force to unseat the bullet with about six impacts. I was amazed the the powder didn't ignite. But, I'm pretty sure some pee came out. ;D

Kentcroy: were you using an inertia puller? I do not follow the Herters Die reference in your post.