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Induction brass annealer redux

itchyTF said:
With all your re-work, it it possible you've got windings on your work coil shorted? Sound like the power supply is going into current limit.
Click to expand...
I had the same thought, and checked the coil - nothing appears to be shorted, there. I agree that it looks like the PS is in current limit. I may substitute in the factory jumper plug on the power supply to turn off current limiting, and see if the behavior changes. Good thought.
itchyTF said:
Could you temporarily substitute relays for the SSRs as a process of elimination?
Click to expand...
I can - I'd have to order the relays, but.. yeah, that's an option.
itchyTF said:
How are you driving the input of the SSRs? External supply and sinking the current through one of the Arduino's outputs? Not sure, but is the Arduino power 5v & 3.3v? How much current can the outputs sink (or source)?
Click to expand...
Ha ha - good question. I left this part out to avoid confusion, because I believe I've troubleshot around it already (see below), but... My Arduino is actually a SparkFun Artemis Redboard. It's 3.3v on the output pins, and it definitely could not sink enough current to activate one of the two SSRs. The SSR that drives the trapdoor solenoid simply would not activate at all (no LED on the SSR, no solenoid movement).

I had previously driven that solenoid w/ 12v through the Sestos clock, so I (correctly) gauged that I wasn't hitting the transistor in the SSR with enough current to turn it on. I ordered some 3v solenoid boards, and put one in place between the Arduino and the solenoid SSR (so, now using the Arduino to activate the relay on that board - that relay then energizes 12v at the SSR, which now successfully engages the SSR and operates the solenoid). That worked - so I added a relay board between the Arduino and the induction board SSR, too. The behavior there didn't change at all - still drops to 4v, with very little current drawn, etc.

A future move might be to remove the solenoid SSR - the relay board should be capable of switching the solenoid without needing the SSR anymore. I didn't want to go there until I figure out the induction board issue.

I'll work on an updated schematic later - kinda busy at work today, but I know that'll help you guys visualize what I've got. I'll also give deactivating current limiting a whirl, and see if that makes any difference. I recall that connector being janky, and the connection was flaky. Now that you've brought it up, the symptom seems familiar to when I was building that connector and had a bad connection to the 5v wire... Will update later, after I have a chance to play with it!
 
For starters, your guess about current limiting was spot on. I put the original dummy plug back in the power supply, and it engages perfectly. As I removed the connector I built to support current limiting, the voltage input wire slid right out of the pin in side the connector. Sigh... have to build another one of those tiny little bastards, I guess. This time, the thing gets soldered together, rather than just crimped...

So, thanks for jogging my memory on that symptom! Once I get the power supply connector rebuilt, I should be completely in business again!

itchyTF said:
Is yours an Artemis nano or regular Artemis?

Do you know the part number of the SSR?
Click to expand...

Regular Artemis Redboard. The SSR I'm using is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075L82FL8/?tag=accuratescom-20
 
davexre said:
I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I'd have to build encoder support for it, looks like (currently using an encoder w/ integrated button). I've also considered developing my own menu library to do what I really want the thing to do, but be lighter weight about it.
Click to expand...
You define controls in the file LCDML_control.ino, a "normal" rotary encoder (with pushbutton) is 3. If you're using an encoder with keypad, you could modify it, looking at the keypad option for inspiration.

// content:
// (0) Control over serial interface with asdw_e_q
// (1) Control over one analog input
// (2) Control over 4 - 6 digital input pins (internal pullups enabled)
// (3) Control over encoder [third party lib] (Download: https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/Encoder)
// (4) Control with Keypad [third party lib] (Download: http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/KeypadTutorial )
// (5) Control with an IRMP remote [third party lib] (Download: https://github.com/ukw100/IRMP )
// (6) Control with a joystick
// (7) Control over I2C PCF8574
// *********************************************************************

#define _LCDML_CONTROL_cfg 3

The custom functions for menu items, you define in the file LCDML_display_menuFunction. The items in the menu you define easily (including sub items) with placement in menu, name of item and the function to call. For example my menu definition looks something like this:

LCDML_add (0 , LCDML_0 , 1 , "Anneal" , mFunc_annealer);
LCDML_add (1 , LCDML_0 , 2 , "Magic assist" , mFunc_magicAnneal);
LCDML_add (2 , LCDML_0 , 3 , "Test" , mFunc_nondestructiveAnalyze);
LCDML_add (3 , LCDML_0 , 4 , "Settings" , NULL);
LCDML_add (4 , LCDML_0_4 , 1 , "Home pos" , mFunc_homePos);
LCDML_add (5 , LCDML_0_4 , 2 , "Anneal pos" , mFunc_annealPos);
LCDML_add (6 , LCDML_0_4 , 3 , "Drop pos" , mFunc_dropPos);
LCDML_add (7 , LCDML_0_4 , 5 , "delayFactor" , mFunc_pulseDelayFactor);
LCDML_add (8 , LCDML_0_4 , 4 , "delayBase" , mFunc_pulseDelayBase);tab
LCDML_add (9 , LCDML_0_4 , 7 , "pLengthFactor" , mFunc_pulseLengthFactor);
LCDML_add (10 , LCDML_0_4 , 6 , "pulseBase" , mFunc_numPulsesBase);
LCDML_add (11 , LCDML_0_4 , 8 , "Duty-cycle" , mFunc_dutyCycle);
LCDML_add (12 , LCDML_0 , 5 , "Pulses" , mFunc_pulses);
LCDML_add (13 , LCDML_0_5 , 1 , "Yes" , NULL); // NULL = no menu function
LCDML_add (14 , LCDML_0_5 , 2 , "No" , NULL); // NULL = no menu function
LCDML_add (18 , LCDML_0_4 , 12 , "Back" , mFunc_back);
LCDML_add (15 , LCDML_0_4 , 9 , "Case Insert" , mFunc_caseInsertSize);
LCDML_add (16 , LCDML_0_4 , 10 , "Ferrite" , mFunc_ferriteGapSize);
LCDML_add (17 , LCDML_0_4 , 11 , "Neck Diameter" , mFunc_caseNeckDiameter);
 
Standardelg said:
You define controls in the file LCDML_control.ino, a "normal" rotary encoder (with pushbutton) is 3. If you're using an encoder with keypad, you could modify it, looking at the keypad option for inspiration.
Click to expand...
Ah, interesting - Ok, I'll look deeper there. Thanks for that. ArudinoMenu is also super slow - hopefully, this would turn out faster.
 
Hey guys, great builds on this thread!!!

just wondering if any of you doing Arduino builds used the TCRT5000 IR sensor and board for their drop tube case present indicator and go signal for the induction board to go on?

let me know,

cheers

​

 
Hello
I don’t know if anyone has used the KeeWay program, but it’s not working for me. I cannot create new files, and on the created files, it does not recover all the data. As a result, the tray is not working and neither is annealing it. If someone has information, I am interested. Have a good day
 
Howdy

I've had a number of requests for my shelf design. Sorry to those who have asked for it for all the delay in posting this link. You can go to this link to open the design in a web browser. From there you can download the Fusion file and make whatever edits you need. Once you have the model how you want it you can export the stl file for the relevant components.

https://a360.co/2wToC4K

Some of the key things to keep in mind include:

- I used drawer pulls with one end cut off for the 'rails' that the shelf slides up and down on. The distance and diameter for the holes in the shelf for these need to match whatever you use so that the shelf sits off the face of your enclosure by the correct amount
- the work coil and the drop hole need to align very well. So think about the rail holes, the mounting of the coil and the position of the drop hole carefully
- the holes in the side of the shelf for the grub screws (used to lock the shelf in position) are designed to be tapped for M4 thread. If you are going to use an imperial thread grub/set screw you may need to change this
- the inserts are designed to accommodate 308 family of calibers and 223 sized cases respectively. Without an insert fitted the drop hole can handle magnum calibers. That covers quite a range but you can adjust as you see fit
- depending on how you print the parts you may need to polish the drop hole and insert surfaces to make them fit more easily
- the small hole on the underside of the shelf was designed to be threaded for M2. I used this as an axle/pivot for my coupling between the solenoid and trap door 'paddle'

Here's a link to the paddle design

https://a360.co/2xBVGPf

I simply used think double-sided tape (automotive tape) to affix the solenoid. This has the advantage of allowing it to be adjusted for best operation depending on your coupling design. Once affixed it won't fall off but can be pulled off and repositioned if necessary.

Any questions, just ask. Fusion's timeline is a powerful tool. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the model's timeline and that for individual components (inserts). Adjustments made at the relevant point in the timeline will mean everything is updated accordingly and the model not broken. For example, if your drawer pull (or whatever) rails were thicker than mine and you needed to adjust the diameter of the hole in the shelf, you would not just add another operation to enlarge the hole. Rather you would find the point in the timeline where I created the first of these holes and edit that operation which created the hole for the larger diameter. Everything should flow accordingly from that. I hope that makes sense. It's less of an issue in such a simple model but good practice if you ever take on something more complex in Fusion.
 
Last edited:
SGK said:
Howdy

I've had a number of requests for my shelf design. Sorry to those who have asked for it for all the delay in posting this link. You can go to this link to open the design in a web browser. From there you can download the Fusion file and make whatever edits you need. Once you have the model how you want it you can export the stl file for the relevant components.

https://a360.co/2wToC4K

Some of the key things to keep in mind include:

- I used drawer pulls with one end cut off for the 'rails' that the shelf slides up and down on. The distance and diameter for the holes in the shelf for these need to match whatever you use so that the shelf sits off the face of your enclosure by the correct amount
- the work coil and the drop hole need to align very well. So think about the rail holes, the mounting of the coil and the position of the drop hole carefully
- the holes in the side of the shelf for the grub screws (used to lock the shelf in position) are designed to be tapped for M4 thread. If you are going to use an imperial thread grub/set screw you may need to change this
- the inserts are designed to accommodate 308 family of calibers and 223 sized cases respectively. Without an insert fitted the drop hole can handle magnum calibers. That covers quite a range but you can adjust as you see fit
- depending on how you print the parts you may need to polish the drop hole and insert surfaces to make them fit more easily
- the small hole on the underside of the shelf was designed to be threaded for M2. I used this as an axle/pivot for my coupling between the solenoid and trap door 'paddle'

Here's a link to the paddle design

https://a360.co/2wToC4K

I simply used think double-sided tape (automotive tape) to affix the solenoid. This has the advantage of allowing it to be adjusted for best operation depending on your coupling design. Once affixed it won't fall off but can be pulled off and repositioned if necessary.

Any questions, just ask. Fusion's timeline is a powerful tool. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the model's timeline and that for individual components (inserts). Adjustments made at the relevant point in the timeline will mean everything is updated accordingly and the model not broken. For example, if your drawer pull (or whatever) rails were thicker than mine and you needed to adjust the diameter of the hole in the shelf, you would not just add another operation to enlarge the hole. Rather you would find the point in the timeline where I created the first of these holes and edit that operation which created the hole for the larger diameter. Everything should flow accordingly from that. I hope that makes sense. It's less of an issue in such a simple model but good practice if you ever take on something more complex in Fusion.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, will be useful for a lot of people, but,(always a But), how do you actually download the file? I have taken a look at the webpage and there is no option to download, only to view, rotate etc. Also you have given the same link for both the shelf and the paddle.
 
Hmm. Sorry. Let me investigate. When I did this from my home computer there is an option to download the file. I will need to check when I get home this evening.
 
Hi all, should be my last question, hopefully :)

For the Arduino driven projects, what external timer did you used? I’m talking about the timer used to enter the annealing time...

please let me know.

cheers
 
Standardelg said:
I logged some data on 3 different cases (Norma 6.5x55, Norma .308 and Lapua 6.5x47) using Serial.print to print a row of comma separated values for every 1/10 second of the first second of a "normal" annealing. The rows contained Annealing target time (What I consider good) and the currents measured every 1/10 second.
I copy pasted the values into an online multiple regression analysis tool (http://www.xuru.org/rt/MLR.asp#CopyPaste) and started to fiddle with the data (too many columns, not enough rows). I had to remove some of the columns and decided to test what would happen if I only used 3 current measurements - and picked the ones made at 0.2, 0.6 and 1.0 second. The results were horrible, half of the calculated (predicted) target times were off by 3-4 tenths of a second. Then I decided to add info on caliber (diameter) and placement in coil (elevation of the bottom support of the case - the floor/table..) - and the errors of the predicted times compared to expected (the known good ones) were reduced to few hundreds of a second or a lot less. So, with the limited amount of data, and only having tested on 3 different types of cases, a model has been made, which as it seems right now, can predict with certainty, the "perfect" annealing time of any case among the three types I tested ;)
More testing to do in the weekend.
y is target time (ms)
x1 is expression for location in coil, I use some "riser" plates, in 3 thicknesses, 1, 2, and 3, 6 is 1+2+3, 7 is 2x3+1
x2 is caliber diameter
x3, x4 and x5 are currents measured at 0.2, 0.6 and 1.0 s
View attachment 1182187
Click to expand...
I would definitely say that some cartridge geometry values like P1, L1 and L2 should be parameters as well. Can't see from your data set which line belongs to which of your two 6.5 mm cartridges unfortunately.
By looking at your data most of the forecast is based on your calibre and placement and only a tiny bit by the first current measurement, the other 2 were not even significant. So I guess cartridge geometry will play a big factor, but calibre is not an encompassing representation of that. In addition I saw in my research on building one of the arduino based annealers that IR thermo sensors are available, there is a spot that measures remote on surface up to 380°C. So one could point 2 at different case areas and measure how fast the max will be reached and include this in the model. Interesting times ahead.
 
Ferris 1977 said:
Hi all, should be my last question, hopefully :)

For the Arduino driven projects, what external timer did you used? I’m talking about the timer used to enter the annealing time...

please let me know.

cheers
Click to expand...
no need for one, the arduino will trigger the relays with whatever you programmed in the routine.
 
mountrcg said:
no need for one, the arduino will trigger the relays with whatever you programmed in the routine.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand this step in the routine, but I’d like to use and external adjustable timer so that I can adjust the time on the fly without have to change the time in the program.
 
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