Induction brass annealer redux

[bob15]

While sourcing my parts out, I ran across a freebie brand new Omron H3CA solid state timer and was trying to figure out if this would work instead of the B3S that I have yet to buy. Would anyone like to read the spec page to help me figure out if it would work? I've spent 2 hours reading, re-reading and then even going and trying to find a video on it to explain it, only to get more confused . Would anyone like to take a guess at if this would work?

http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/cat/h3ca_ds_e_4_4_csm84.pdf?id=202

 

[Gina1]

While sourcing my parts out, I ran across a freebie brand new Omron H3CA solid state timer and was trying to figure out if this would work instead of the B3S that I have yet to buy. Would anyone like to read the spec page to help me figure out if it would work? I've spent 2 hours reading, re-reading and then even going and trying to find a video on it to explain it, only to get more confused . Would anyone like to take a guess at if this would work?

http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/cat/h3ca_ds_e_4_4_csm84.pdf?id=202

KIS.... Keep It Simple.. stick with the B3S quad timer. All the design/wiring work has been done.
"Free" might sound good, In reading the spec's on the H3CA, even I was confused. Trying to figure out how to integrate it into the GinaErick might cost you more
for additional parts AND would it work the same way as the B3S ?

I would do a pass on this.

Gina

 

[bob15]

KIS.... Keep It Simple.. stick with the B3S quad timer. All the design/wiring work has been done.
"Free" might sound good, In reading the spec's on the H3CA, even I was confused. Trying to figure out how to integrate it into the GinaErick might cost you more
for additional parts AND would it work the same way as the B3S ?

I would do a pass on this.

Gina

Thanks. Yes, free sounds good, but not in this case. Oh well......time to order a B3S

Thanks for the help.

 

[Gina1]

My two cents, glad to help.

Gina

 

[jthor]

That's a small 3/4 inch PVC pipe insert to keep my 6.5 creedmoor brass centered. My coil is 8 turns but a little smaller at .9 inch ID roughly on this annealer. My new annealer is 1 1/8 inch ID coil and will still use 3/4 inch PVC but with a coupler which is 1.1 inch OD makes for a nice fit and keeps brass centered. Also I'm using the heat resistant fiber sleeve that takes up some space and keeps the coils from touching one another.

Your insert gave me the idea to do this with all the different diameter cartridges I have. Besides keeping the brass centered this would also help with the automated brass feeding process I'm doing later on!

 

[8mm]

Here are pics of my working autofeed. I gave up on the platform and paddle because of too many flying cases, and multiple feeds. I went to a rotary dumper using a second solenoid (same 24V 78 ohm as lower).I used the original design schematic except the second solenoid is in series with the first, powered from the 48V PS instead of the 12V. I'm still trying to get a movie on youtube to post.

Here is a short (!) vid of the feeder working.

It is kinda sorta clear. The anneal time is set at 1 second just for the vid. Both solenoids are 24v out of a copier run in series off the 48v supply. I have to manually dump once to start before hitting the start button, then it runs all 50 brass smoothly. Works on 8x56, .308, and .357 mag. as is. The tan sticks are bamboo chopstick pieces tapered outward to center falling brass.

 

[Gina1]

Very, very nice. Good job.

Gina

 

[BillK55]

bamboo chopsticks

That's the mind of a true inventor at work. Use what ya got to get the job done. **makes mental note** put some chopsticks with my emergency repair kit (six coat hangers and roll of duct tape)

That's going to be a rock solid feeder when you get through tweaking it.

 

[BillK55]

For anyone who'd like some cartridge centering inserts, and you're the put things together from things meant to do something else kinda person, I saw these cute little polyethylene funnels on Ebay. This would be for an insert to sit under the coil and stub into the shelf to hold it in place. Earlier in the thread others had mentioned the same basic idea, but they were making them from stock on a lathe I believe. This is the DIY without machine shop tools version.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-mini-plastic-travel-funnels-for-small-samples-5pcs-D1Z5/183438396162?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

5 of them for $0.99 from China. The OD of the reinforced lip at the top is just under 1-1/4", and the max OD at top of the slope of the funnel is right at 1", so they're a good size to use with the coil size in the build. I'd found them before I decided to go in with SGK on his printed shelf with inserts. My plan was to get a short piece of 3/4" rigid poly or PEX tubing, on the order of 3/8 to 1/2" long. Then over-bore a shallow hole that's centered over the drop hole in the shelf. The piece of short rigid tubing fits in the shallow portion of the hole over the drop hole, and acts as a cradle to hold the modified funnel. Trim the tab off the funnel and any of the reinforcing lip at top you don't need, then carefully cut off enough of the bottom of little poly funnel so it has the right ID for the cartridge you're annealing. You'll need to do a good job keeping the cut squared up so the hole doesn't end up oval. After you've trimmed the funnel, glue it to the short piece of rigid poly, again making sure its squared up. You can make up one of these inserts for each size cartridge, and pop them in and out. Won't be quite as elegant as an insert turned out on a lathe, or 3D printed, but it should work just as well, and lots of people don't have access to the fancier machines.

As an alternative you might could also hang one of these funnels from the top of the coil, but if you're needing help guiding it into the mouth of the coil, a similar funnel of larger ID would probably work better.

 

[hambone1971]

I had a problem with my simple trap door solenoid design. It didn't quite have enough stroke to work the full base dia of a 6.5 Creedmoor, only half of it. It did work somewhat OK but the main problem was the brass would be tilted a little with only half support under it even with the PVC guides.
Had to redesign the trap door with a lever system like I've seen here and now it works a lot better. Got plenty of stroke now with the same solenoid. Always something to experiment with on this project and it's been fun.

 

[Gina1]

Well done
Gina

 

[jthor]

Been working on some CAD models to 3D print. Inserts for the brass I currently reload, auto feeder, and a replacement table.

 

[hambone1971]

I ran into a little problem I want to share with my pvc inserts shown above / earlier. I was testing my new annealer a little without water in the system, heating the coil a few times checking things like trap door, fans, etc. Then I noticed a new smell in the air. Ha. the PVC was a melting. It stuck to the sleeve on my coil, I set myself back some with that stunt. Anyway I thought why not use CPVC it's made for hot water and a lot hotter environment. Also next time I'll make sure and have water/glycol in the system and even with PVC inserts should not be a concern. Here's a photo of these neat little inserts i found at ACE Hardware. I'm going to use these for centering up my brass now. It has a hole in center of .545 inch outside around 1 1/8 and at 49 cents it's a deal.

 

[GrocMax]

Yeah, I made mine from teflon. Had a chunk of it left over from making bore guides. Choose a high temp plastic, as you do get heat from the brass, radiant and conductive.

 

[Gina1]

I ran into a little problem I want to share with my pvc inserts shown above / earlier. I was testing my new annealer a little without water in the system, heating the coil a few times checking things like trap door, fans, etc. Then I noticed a new smell in the air. Ha. the PVC was a melting. It stuck to the sleeve on my coil, I set myself back some with that stunt. Anyway I thought why not use CPVC it's made for hot water and a lot hotter environment. Also next time I'll make sure and have water/glycol in the system and even with PVC inserts should not be a concern. Here's a photo of these neat little inserts i found at ACE Hardware. I'm going to use these for centering up my brass now. It has a hole in center of .545 inch outside around 1 1/8 and at 49 cents it's a deal.

It's a learning process But that's what makes it better. Think I'll add your CPVC fitting to my unit. Thanks for sharing.

 

[hambone1971]

I hope the insert works as advertised. ha. I haven't tried it yet but very soon. I've got my new annealer all wired up now, just have to add coolant check for leaks and start annealing some brass. Thank you Gina and Erick.

 

[Gina1]

I hope the insert works as advertised. ha. I haven't tried it yet but very soon. I've got my new annealer all wired up now, just have to add coolant check for leaks and start annealing some brass. Thank you Gina and Erick.

hambone... looks really neat. Nice retro with the meters.
I see only one problem (maybe). You won't know until you fire it up. That would be parasitic magnetic induction to the front cover, where the coil goes through the case. If when you start to run it, the metal around that point will get warm/hot. The fix for it is a larger cutout in the case face, so the coil pass through is further away from the metal. Just use a larger grommet to fill in the added space.
Gina

 

[hambone1971]

Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll watch for trouble maybe tomorrow when I test it further. Larger grommets are a easy fix or maybe some other material for the face plates. Thanks

 

[hambone1971]

Fired up my new annealer today, saw one problem right away, I need to raise the coil about a 1/2 inch for the 6.5 Creedmoor brass. Don't know how that got overlooked, I wound and swapped out to many coils I think. No biggie jut scrap the metal face plates, loosen coil screws and raise coil and make new plates. I did anneal about 20 brass anyway looking for other problems and checking for the face plate heating (so far none), the CPVC insert worked well no heating at all. Also no leaks in coolant system, it did take a while to get coolant flowing around the loop, air lock I guess. So far no big problems.

 

[Brucey Boy]

I ran into a little problem I want to share with my pvc inserts shown above / earlier. I was testing my new annealer a little without water in the system, heating the coil a few times checking things like trap door, fans, etc. Then I noticed a new smell in the air. Ha. the PVC was a melting. It stuck to the sleeve on my coil, I set myself back some with that stunt. Anyway I thought why not use CPVC it's made for hot water and a lot hotter environment. Also next time I'll make sure and have water/glycol in the system and even with PVC inserts should not be a concern. Here's a photo of these neat little inserts i found at ACE Hardware. I'm going to use these for centering up my brass now. It has a hole in center of .545 inch outside around 1 1/8 and at 49 cents it's a deal.

Hi Hambone. I almost did a similar thing during my dev stage, but caught it before any damage was done. I very quickly rewired the cooling fans, radiator fan and coolant pump so that if the power is on to the power supply then they are running. Not a drama since.