Induction brass annealer redux

[ottsm]

Mine was about 50 ohms and when tested with 12VDC pulled about 0.25 amps with a regular hall effect multimeter, guess that proves ohms law out. Mine had no label either. Haven't used it yet but plan on changing my current trap door in the near future.

 

[Gina1]

View attachment 1054289 View attachment 1054288 View attachment 1054287 Here are the pics of inside the PC case Gina. Hope it helps someone like all the pics here helped me.
It’s a bit of a mess in there but it seems to work just fine.

Wow, and double wow. There are some REAL innovations there. " I like" !! How is it working out for you ? I see it's a constant current model. What cases are you annealing and at what current, and for how long?
Amazing you got the whole build in a PC case.
My hat is off to you.

Gina

 

[McHaggis]

Thanks Gina. It variable current via a 9 position rotary switch. It’ll range from about 7.7 amps and pulls 12.2 with a Lapua 6.5 creed case in it. I run it for 6.45 seconds.
The only thing I feel I got wrong was the thickness of the nylon that the case sits in. This thickness limits how much neck gets up into the coil. So far it works great for the Creedmoor cases but I’ll see how it goes with shorter 223 cases.

 

[ottsm]

Noticed that your annealing board has heat sinks on the bottom, did you add these or have they started putting these on the newer board?

I have a thermistor wedge down the middle caps and without cooling on it can get above 140 degF after about 20 cases.

 

[McHaggis]

I added them as mentioned by GrocMax in one of his posts.

 

[8mm]

And the percent of copper,to zinc, and other metals, etc etc. New Norma 6BR = anneal time 6.4 sec. Lapua 6BR anneal time 5.4 sec.

Any new brass, of that cal, or of the same manufacture even if I've checked it out, a few months, or a year ago. I run a quick test with Tempilaq.

Any tries with .223? I tested (15) F.C. 223 REM from a buddy - all from the same box . All once fired. There is a huge difference at same settings -some melted paint a trace at the mouth, some along the neck anywhere, and a few below the shoulder.
Other calibers seem to have very good consistency per headstamp.

 

[Gina1]

Something to remember. The coil diameter for the GinaErick was designed for .308, that is a case diameter of about .457" to .468 bottom of shoulder to head). the .223 has a case diameter of .357 to .372. In induction annealing (GinaErick), the closer the case is to the coil, the more energy is transferred to the case, and hence the case gets hotter faster. The .223 being a smaller case, it is further away from the induction coil sides, so it takes longer to come up to annealing temp. The coil on the GinaErick, will work for many types of cases. (30-06, 6XC, .338 Lapua, etc) because the for the most part, those cases fit in that size category. If you do a LOT of .223 cases, you may want to think about adding a smaller induction annealing coil.

 

[GrocMax]

FC 223 can run the gamut from OK, to horribly inconsistent. Maybe by year, what plant it was run at? Tend to have thicker necks too. So does PPU. FC had some really bad batches of soft head brass about ten years ago.

EDIT- One of the benefits to having current control, seems to work better on inconsistent brass to lower the current and take a longer time. I also quit going to such a high temp, more like 'normalizing' than fully annealing.

 

[Gina1]

Also because of the small diameter of the .223, it needs to be centered in the coil.

 

[kit-808]

getting ready to wire it up, using 12v for controller.
Still unsure if i take the Arduino route yet!

 

[8mm]

Something to remember. The coil diameter for the GinaErick was designed for .308, that is a case diameter of about .457" to .468 bottom of shoulder to head). the .223 has a case diameter of .357 to .372. In induction annealing (GinaErick), the closer the case is to the coil, the more energy is transferred to the case, and hence the case gets hotter faster. The .223 being a smaller case, it is further away from the induction coil sides, so it takes longer to come up to annealing temp. The coil on the GinaErick, will work for many types of cases. (30-06, 6XC, .338 Lapua, etc) because the for the most part, those cases fit in that size category. If you do a LOT of .223 cases, you may want to think about adding a smaller induction annealing coil.

The tests on the .223 were done at 2.3sec., 45v (topped at 10A) using a bushing to center the brass in the holder at about the 4th coil top, so they're heating - maybe too quick? I'll try less insertion depth, lower V and more time? Try for better consistency.

 

[Brucey Boy]

Here is a video of my recently completed (well almost completed) induction annealer with auto feed.

I push the case loader button to start the process. The '18' displayed on the case loader is the speed control setting (0-100%). It operates on a 25RPM 12v motor. There is a sensor in the back of the funnel that detects the case loading into the annealer and that triggers the timer. The case anneals and the timer then activates the trapdoor to drop the case. It then stops and waits for the next case to be loaded through the funnel.
This machine works perfectly for large and small (e.g. 243, 223) centrefire cases. I raise the induction heater to the appropriate level for large rifle cases.
In this video the annealer is being used in 'trial' mode at only 3+secs, but requires 4.3secs to fully anneal these old PPU large rifle cases. 6.5 Creedmore Lapua cases require 4.6secs. At 3+secs I am happy to feed these sacrificial cases through the machine as often as I need to without fear of totally destroying them. I did cook a few in the earlier testing processes though. It is amazing the difference 2/10ths of a second makes.
Since making this video I have added an annealing indicator LED, rebuilt the trapdoor system and it now works flawlessly, and I am working on drawing all power from the 40v power supply rather than using that entirely for the annealer and having everything else powered by a 12V 1.5A power supply. The volt amp meter shown has recently died and I am waiting of delivery of a new one.

 

[Gina1]

Here is a video of my recently completed (well almost completed) induction annealer with auto feed.

I push the case loader button to start the process. The '18' displayed on the case loader is the speed control setting (0-100%). It operates on a 25RPM 12v motor. There is a sensor in the back of the funnel that detects the case loading into the annealer and that triggers the timer. The case anneals and the timer then activates the trapdoor to drop the case. It then stops and waits for the next case to be loaded through the funnel.
This machine works perfectly for large and small (e.g. 243, 223) centrefire cases. I raise the induction heater to the appropriate level for large rifle cases.
In this video the annealer is being used in 'trial' mode at only 3+secs, but requires 4.3secs to fully anneal these old PPU large rifle cases. 6.5 Creedmore Lapua cases require 4.6secs. At 3+secs I am happy to feed these sacrificial cases through the machine as often as I need to without fear of totally destroying them. I did cook a few in the earlier testing processes though. It is amazint the difference 2/10ths of a second makes.
Since making this video I have added an annealing indicator LED, rebuilt the trapdoor system and it now works flawlessly, and I am working on drawing all power from the 40v power supply rather than using that entirely for the annealer and having everything else powered by a 12V 1.5A power supply. The volt amp meter show has recently died and I am waiting of delivery of a new one.

That is a "nice" build !!. I noticed everyone that builds a unit, adds their own personal touch. Your auto feed system, is what was needed for the GinaErick.
Shucks... it only keeps getting better and better.

 

[Brucey Boy]

That is a "nice" build !!. I noticed everyone that builds a unit, adds their own personal touch. Your auto feed system, is what was needed for the GinaErick.
Shucks... it only keeps getting better and better.

I have used your original concept design but modified it, as we all do, to suit what I want it to do. My main criteria was to have auto feed, and that took the majority of my effort. Everything else is your design. The timer is the key that opened the auto feed door for me. I eventually found the PTR4 timer and used that over your Sestos timer because it has the ability to accept an external signal from the proximity switch to initiate the timer. Sestos doco does not say it was possible. The buttons on the PTR4 are small and fiddly for boy fingers, but other than that it works very well. Finding good programming doco for it is another story.

Thank you so much for the massive effort you have put in to developing the original build and particularly for deciding to share it, and for posting such easy to read construction detail. I am not electronics trained in any way, but I have been able to follow the core discussion and I just glaze over the tech talk sessions which are meaningless to me as they are way over my head. For you this must be like watching an infant grow and mature into a great adult. Thank you again.

 

[ottsm]

I started out using a servo for the trap door, then I went to a linear solenoid. Thought I'd also try out a rotary solenoid as well. Short term it's working fine but this is just a crude setup but seems strong enough and it's far enough away from the induction coil so it doesn't heat up. Big issue with a rotary solenoid is finding one for a decent price.

 

[Gina1]

I have used your original concept design but modified it, as we all do, to suit what I want it to do. My main criteria was to have auto feed, and that took the majority of my effort. Everything else is your design. The timer is the key that opened the auto feed door for me. I eventually found the PTR4 timer and used that over your Sestos timer because it has the ability to accept an external signal from the proximity switch to initiate the timer. Sestos doco does not say it was possible. The buttons on the PTR4 are small and fiddly for boy fingers, but other than that it works very well. Finding good programming doco for it is another story.

Thank you so much for the massive effort you have put in to developing the original build and particularly for deciding to share it, and for posting such easy to read construction detail. I am not electronics trained in any way, but I have been able to follow the core discussion and I just glaze over the tech talk sessions which are meaningless to me as they are way over my head. For you this must be like watching an infant grow and mature into a great adult. Thank you again.

Thank you

 

[Gina1]

I started out using a servo for the trap door, then I went to a linear solenoid. Thought I'd also try out a rotary solenoid as well. Short term it's working fine but this is just a crude setup but seems strong enough and it's far enough away from the induction coil so it doesn't heat up. Big issue with a rotary solenoid is finding one for a decent price.

Crude is in the eye of the beholder. It works !!! and that is the really neat thing. Major inventions start that way. You saw a need and thought of a way to get it done.
Bravo...

 

[ottsm]

View attachment 1055276
getting ready to wire it up, using 12v for controller.
Still unsure if i take the Arduino route yet!

I went the Arduino route. I still need to come up with a better case, the flat prototype below just takes up too much space on my reloading bench. I've been watching some of the computer case builds but may use MDF board and make something similar in size but it will let me put stuff on slide in shelves were I want. The "controller" board below is an arduino type board but it has Bluetooth built in to make the programming wireless, other than that it serves the same purpose and the software is the same. With the Arduino your going to want to get something that makes it all plug and play, they make a pin header breakout board, I use the DFrobot I/O Expansion Shield V7.1 when using just an Arduino. The board below has the pin headers already built into it.

I've added a flow sensor, hall effect current sensor, voltage sensor, case sensor, and two thermistors. The two thermistors measure the water temperature and the capacitor bank temperature (Yes, the cap bank does get hot). The case sensor is what starts the timer. I used a rotary knob and a 4x20 LCD display for the user input. One nice feature is that the case can be manually ejected at any time and the time it was annealing will be captured which is good for starting the first time. The time can also be changed on the fly while annealing. At this point I'm basically out of I/O although I could give up the fan RPM input and output. I do regulate the fan over the cap bank, it was something to try but eventually things heat up and the fans going ramp up anyway. I may get better cooling by adding heat sinks to the bottom of the induction board and cooling from the bottom as others have done. Another reason to get another case setup.

Everyone on this forum is great at helping others out and sharing ideas. And special thanks to Gina1 for starting this thread.

 

[kit-808]

I went the Arduino route. I still need to come up with a better case, the flat prototype below just takes up too much space on my reloading bench. I've been watching some of the computer case builds but may use MDF board and make something similar in size but it will let me put stuff on slide in shelves were I want. The "controller" board below is an arduino type board but it has Bluetooth built in to make the programming wireless, other than that it serves the same purpose and the software is the same.

Thank you for the parts info, lloks like im buying more stuff ..lol..

Im using a lot of old computer gear in my build, rad, pump and fan controller, its way over kill for the job, but means i dont have to buy anything

I have found a few ideas for the arduino but new to programing so looking forward to the challenge.

 

[Gina1]

Good luck, I'm sure you will come up with some interesting innovations.
Gina