IMR Enduron Powders Being Discontinued

[urbanrifleman]

Urbanrifleman do you know what the AA is for IMR 4166?

Accurate Arms 4064

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

www.hodgdonreloading.com

 

[209jones]

Hard to say why they are discontinuing these powders, hopefully they'll say why shortly. May be a production issue, may be a regs issue in Canada on a chemical, or in Quebec itself. Hodgdon powders are mostly banned in the EU due to chem contents. Plenty of similar powders on the market in Hodgdon and other brands, if they are around to be had.

 

[rijndael]

may be a regs issue in Canada on a chemical, or in Quebec itself. Hodgdon powders are mostly banned in the EU due to chem contents. Plenty of similar powders on the market in Hodgdon and other brands, if they are around to be had.

That was my guess.

 

[urbanrifleman]

If Accurate comes out with an announcement saying something similar, then you'll know.

 

[Geno C]

 

[davidjoe]

I’d personally take sporadic over never.

 

[Geno C]

You’d think. All of their powders are sporadic with availability

 

[Laurie]

Accurate Arms 4064

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

www.hodgdonreloading.com

It's not the same powder as IMR-4166 though. Look at the SDS ingredients listing for it on the Accurate website and you'll see that with the sole exception of ACC-5744, all extruded grades are single-based.

By contrast, all IMR 'Endurons' are double-based as is again seen in their SDS sheets as having a nitroglycerin content.

I suspect that this where the production problem lies. General Dynamics Valleyfield may make double-based extruded powders for other purposes, but for handloaders at least, the Endurons were new territory. Nasty stuff, nitroglycerin and extremely hazardous and expensive in mixing ingredients for extruded types. (Ball-type production is very different and inherently much safer as the ingredients start as mixes within water based slurries.) This isn't the first issue with GD Valleyfield developed new products as opposed to restarting production of the antediluvian DuPont Corp IMR grades. Remember IMR-4007SSC? It was withdrawn as being inherently dangerous in either loaded ammo or stored tubs because of its propensity to self-ignite.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It's not the same powder as IMR-4166 though. Look at the SDS ingredients listing for it on the Accurate website and you'll see that with the sole exception of ACC-5744, all extruded grades are single-based.

By contrast, all IMR 'Endurons' are double-based as is again seen in their SDS sheets as having a nitroglycerin content.

I suspect that this where the production problem lies. General Dynamics Valleyfield may make double-based extruded powders for other purposes, but for handloaders at least, the Endurons were new territory. Nasty stuff, nitroglycerin and extremely hazardous and expensive in mixing ingredients for extruded types. (Ball-type production is very different and inherently much safer as the ingredients start as mixes within water based slurries.) This isn't the first issue with GD Valleyfield developed new products as opposed to restarting production of the antediluvian DuPont Corp IMR grades. Remember IMR-4007SSC? It was withdrawn as being inherently dangerous in either loaded ammo or stored tubs because of its propensity to self-ignite.

Well there you go. I stand corrected!!

I bet it's still awesome though and will do the same job.

 

[Laurie]

I bet it's still awesome though and will do the same job.

Yes surely! I've always liked 4064 whether the original US or the Czech version (Lovex S-062 to us in the UK; Shooters World 'Precision' in the US).

IMR-4166 seems an odd beast to me. I looked at it last year in my search for REACH-compliant alternatives to H4895 and H. VarGet, using the 223, 77gn SMK in a long-throat chamber in an F-Class rifle. The first issue was despite it being on the market for some years, only Hodgdon in its Annual Manual supplied any 223 loads in any bullet weight and for the 77, the max and its MV were very low. Bearing in mind its listed relative burn speed is between the two 4895s and 4064, it should be an ideal powder for this application and an alternative to H4895 at least. There is plenty of data around for larger cased cartridges with similar case capacity to bore area ratios to the 223 such as 308 Win. In the end, I loaded 15 batches, weights rising to well over Hodgdon's max and whilst groups were satisfactory, it started to pressure out at lower levels and performance than H4895. Tests of all the Enduron range by Handloader magazine's contributors show this to be a litemotif for these powders.

Unfortunately for us in the UK that's another five powders gone despite their REACH compliance and CE certification. We've also lost the reintroduced compliant Norma powders after a few years of availability, RUAG Ammotech UK not reordering any more after the first lot or two.

 

[Herzo]

A few years ago, I purchased 1# 4451 on a whim, found that it shot well on my 1903 sniper with a 168 grain Amax. By the time I decided to load a quantity, it was gone never to be seen again.

 

[Fuj]

A few years ago, I purchased 1# 4451 on a whim, found that it shot well on my 1903 sniper with a 168 grain Amax. By the time I decided to load a quantity, it was gone never to be seen again.

I picked up 2 lbs of 4451 in a trade. I was getting low on R-16
so I worked up a load for my 183 Sierras, and was surprised how
well it shot in an upper node. It was right there with R-16 for
what I was doing.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

It's not the same powder as IMR-4166 though. Look at the SDS ingredients listing for it on the Accurate website and you'll see that with the sole exception of ACC-5744, all extruded grades are single-based.

By contrast, all IMR 'Endurons' are double-based as is again seen in their SDS sheets as having a nitroglycerin content.

I suspect that this where the production problem lies. General Dynamics Valleyfield may make double-based extruded powders for other purposes, but for handloaders at least, the Endurons were new territory. Nasty stuff, nitroglycerin and extremely hazardous and expensive in mixing ingredients for extruded types. (Ball-type production is very different and inherently much safer as the ingredients start as mixes within water based slurries.) This isn't the first issue with GD Valleyfield developed new products as opposed to restarting production of the antediluvian DuPont Corp IMR grades. Remember IMR-4007SSC? It was withdrawn as being inherently dangerous in either loaded ammo or stored tubs because of its propensity to self-ignite.

I sure hope that they don’t come out and say the Enduron powders are dangerous to store. I got a whole bunch of the 4451, loaded and in jugs.

 

[Evlshnngns]

This is crap news. Imr4451 did alright for me. I bought 5# imr8133, but never got to it. Now I'll probably sell it to someone who needs it more than me.
This really stinks.

 

[sig2009]

Hodgdon is freekin worthless! Period.

 

[Ranger188]

Received this from a reliable supplier.

"Hodgdon has discontinued their Enduron Line of Powders.
These include 4166, 4451, 4955, 7977 and 8133. And, then for a one - two punch Hodgdon raised powder prices mainly the remaining IMR branded Powders this ranges 10-16 percent. One has to remember that some IMR Powder is made in Australia and most is made in Canada."

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Received this from a reliable supplier.

"Hodgdon has discontinued their Enduron Line of Powders.
These include 4166, 4451, 4955, 7977 and 8133. And, then for a one - two punch Hodgdon raised powder prices mainly the remaining IMR branded Powders this ranges 10-16 percent. One has to remember that some IMR Powder is made in Australia and most is made in Canada."

Wow just checked imr 4350 at PV, $44-$316!

 

[Brians356]

No loss there if it’s true. Tried various Enduron powders and was not impressed with speed or accuracy. What’s left of them sits on my shelf collecting dust

Good plant fertilizer, put it to work.
-

 

[Fuj]

Received this from a reliable supplier.

"Hodgdon has discontinued their Enduron Line of Powders.
These include 4166, 4451, 4955, 7977 and 8133. And, then for a one - two punch Hodgdon raised powder prices mainly the remaining IMR branded Powders this ranges 10-16 percent. One has to remember that some IMR Powder is made in Australia and most is made in Canada."

Smells like a monopoly to me.....

 

[sparker]

Accurate Arms 4064

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

www.hodgdonreloading.com

I have both in hand. They look nothing alike!