"I'm beginning to think its me...."

[GetReal]

SO I'm load testing 6 Dasher and got 2 decent loads.... 31.4 Varget under 105 Berger Targets and 31.9 Varget under 105 Berger targets. Front bipod rear bag....basically F-class

Both shoot well under half moa 4 round groups and about 0.50 moa 5 shot groups - one round "flyer" outside the cluster of 4 holes. I've tested seating depth and shoulder bump and neck tension to death. I anneal all my cases. I've weighed my bullets and they all range in between 104.9 and 105.1 grains. Peterson brass.

Both have from 6 - 10 fps S.D. and under 20 fps E.S. Not alot to pick one load over the other.

I'm starting to wonder if its my shooting technique causing the "flyers' - how I'm setting up behind the rifle, shouldering the rifle, cheek placement, something.

Looking for technique / tips on shooter / rifle interaction and engagement that gets consistent accurancy and / or eliminates flyers.

Thanx. Much.

 

[enrique]

Check scope rail and try changing scope to make sure that’s not the problem. Could be reticle jumping around

 

[Riesel]

Check scope rail and try changing scope to make sure that’s not the problem. Could be reticle jumping around

Many seek the answer to this question. Is it any one particular shot in your five shots? I would say your loads are very consistent, now it's your approach to the task at hand. Trying to be absolutely consistent behind the rifle and trigger..........................well, it can be exasperating.
State of mind and practice

 

[K22]

After ruling out all equipment related issues, my ability to call shots is the key to me becoming a much better practical shooter (i.e., off the cross sticks).

This ability is a carryover from the days of my pistol competition where I was taught to call shots and diagnose the reason for both good and errant shots.

For example, today, at the rifle range, I ruined a potential clean 10-shot match with a pull low and to the left on the last shot. I called the shot and sure enough, it was low and to the left. I had a 9 x 9 - 9X going into that shot before I blew it ending up with a 9 x 10 -9X.

The reason for the bad shot was "chicken figure", fear of making a bad shot so I held the position too long without positive trigger action. Tremors set in and instead of resetting, I touched the shot off, overconfident since I had just shot 9X's. Each shot is its own battle - forget that at your own peril. This is the kind of analysis I try to perform.

 

[338 Mollett]

Did the wife walk by the closet the rifle was stored in ?

 

[Bill Norris]

SO I'm load testing 6 Dasher and got 2 decent loads.... 31.4 Varget under 105 Berger Targets and 31.9 Varget under 105 Berger targets. Front bipod rear bag....basically F-class

Both shoot well under half moa 4 round groups and about 0.50 moa 5 shot groups - one round "flyer" outside the cluster of 4 holes. I've tested seating depth and shoulder bump and neck tension to death. I anneal all my cases. I've weighed my bullets and they all range in between 104.9 and 105.1 grains. Peterson brass.

Both have from 6 - 10 fps S.D. and under 20 fps E.S. Not alot to pick one load over the other.

I'm starting to wonder if its my shooting technique causing the "flyers' - how I'm setting up behind the rifle, shouldering the rifle, cheek placement, something.

Looking for technique / tips on shooter / rifle interaction and engagement that gets consistent accurancy and / or eliminates flyers.

Thanx. Much.

I guess this has been said many times over but being able to duplicate the hold of the rifle for each shot is key to tight groups. Touching the stock in the same place and holding the rifle the same way and applying the same amount of pressure will help. Free recoil may help but again being careful to do that the same way each shot is critical.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

There is endless info about equipment, and almost nothing on shooting technique. Phillip Velayo has the most comprehensive content on it, although geared to PRS.

 

[K22]

There is endless info about equipment, and almost nothing on shooting technique. Phillip Velayo has the most comprehensive content on it, although geared to PRS.

That's because most want to "buy" there way to success instead of putting in the hard work and practice of learning how to become a better marksman. I saw a hundred times in over 30 years of competitive pistol shooting.

 

[GetReal]

I have tried Staying on the rifle both cheek weld and shoulder position but not enough to draw any conclusions.

I think i'm going to focus on that next range session.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

That's because most want to "buy" there way to success instead of putting in the hard work and practice of learning how to become a better marksman. I saw a hundred times in over 30 years of competitive pistol shooting.

There is also no money to be made if there is nothing to sell you....

 

[J_idaho]

Post pictures of groups

 

[AlNyhus]

You're using windflags, correct?

 

[GetReal]

You're using windflags, correct?

At 100 yd, no. I shoot low wind days.

 

[6MMsteve]

eye on crosshair on target if your not seeing bullet impact your flinching...I do it, it's the diff in bughole and .5 I don't shoot alot sometimes it takes 1 or 2 days to get myself tuned, or a few sessions in a day to get the feel but that's me...but I know the rifle will do it because it's done it before

 

[Forum Boss]

1. What is the barrel brand, and what is the condition of the crown?

2. Are you contacting the stock with your head?

3. Try load 2950 fps with bullets .007” past first touch into lands.

4. Let someone else shoot the rifle.

————————
Re #1, this site exists because I had a Rem .260 that was nearly always giving me a flyer in every group. I changed to a PacNor 6BR bbl and the flyers completely disappeared with same hold, same rest, same scope, same stock, same action and trigger.

Lesson learned prompted me to launch 6mmBR.com.

 

[Bob3700]

Are u shooting on an e-target? I have found that a few on our shooting team, once they begin using e-targets get into a "play the game" syndrome. Once the gun goes off, they are immediately looking at their tablet screen to see where the shot landed. They are lifting their heads instead of following thru and being the bullet all the way to the target.
Not saying this is your issue, but it is something to look out for.

 

[davidjoe]

Barrels do have a tendency to walk shots as they heat up, which is why three shot groups can be both telling, and problematic. I read your post as saying the fifth shot enlarged the group, because 4 shot groups are smaller.

If the flyer, relative to the group tended toward the same general direction, for example, higher, or right, I would hypothesize that your barrel is warming in each string the same way. Envision an antique thermometer with a coiled metal strip clamped at one end, - the tendency of the coil to move the arrow predictably with temperature changes in that narrow range of the indicator’s motion is so reliable that it is a chosen, fool proof method to determine what the temperature is outside.

Our heavy barrels don’t move “much” from heat, but they do move some, and then they tend to form a group in that new area, until they are allowed to cool off again.

I see this effect the most with my cold bore .22 match guns after I change out paper targets on the stand at 50 yards. The first sighter on target cards two through four, is way off from the group. In the case of my old heavy barreled 40X .22’s, the first sighter is high and the barrel walks back to the old zero within a few shots.

Target one is a different story. Before the match starts, all shooters will warm their guns up taking many shots, maybe 20 or more. The first few fouling shots might actually group small, but whatever they are doing is not to be trusted (ammo performance) or relied upon (scope zero), as it will likely change as the barrel warms up.

I’m supposing that you are shooting five shot groups, letting the barrel cool some between them. If so, the barrel might be in the process of slightly changing its point of impact by the time you are finishing each group, and you are interpreting this as a fifth shot flyer. A way to eliminate this possibility, which you might already be doing, I cannot tell, is to shoot four, five shot groups straight through. Use four small targets beside each other so you can track what is going on in impact shift, and so the holes don’t get lost in each other. This will also reveal if you are “trying too hard” on the last shot of each group and throwing it out, because now only your 20th shot will be your last shot.

I started by saying that a three shot group can be very telling. The fifth or tenth shot never happens in a great many guns, such as long range sporters, and the first three shots are the relevant shots to judge the gun by. Three shots grouping well, more often than not, is no accident and aside from drawing out whether the barrel willl shift point of impact from heat, two or three of them does confirm everything else about the gun and load.

 

[1shot]

To the OP. The answer to your problem has been touched on several times in this thread. The simple answer is where my screen name originated from. PM me for more details.

Lloyd

 

[Andy Work]

You're using windflags, correct?

At 100 yd, no. I shoot low wind days.

You'd be surprised how much goes on in low wind days. You really should use flags, it will help. I have been fighting one shot out of the group or double groups. Working on my gun handling and eventually letting a little sand out of the ears on the rear bag took care of my problem.

 

[boltfluter]

At 100 yd, no. I shoot low wind days.

This is a big problem when looking for the smallest groups possible. Period. Unexplained shots are easily diagnosed when shooting over flags. Once you use them you will not want to be without them.
Paul