I want a new hotrod - 22creedmoor

[pdog06]

My barrels are here for a good time, not a long time.

We need to get some T-shirt’s made up with that slogan on it!

 

[urbanrifleman]

We need to get some T-shirt’s made up with that slogan on it!

My company slogan is

UrbanRifleman Barrels
"Shoot all you want, we'll make more"

 

[Charlie-NY]

I love the 22 Creedmoor.. I have a custom one in a 7 Twist on a Mack Brothers action shooting 85.5gr Bergers and it shoots lights out. Was holding .25-.27MOA for the first 400ish rds. Now the throat eroded some .116” and it’s holding .5 MOA all day. I sat some out to .015 off the lands yesterday and it went back to shooting .25.-.27 MOA groups. I only have about .120 of bearing surface in the case now though, so that’s it, I’ll shoot this until it opens up close to 1 MOA or I decide to get a new barrel.

This has been my first 22 CM experience and I’d definitely do it again.

just gotta Get the whole gas mileage (barrel life) out of your head and enjoy the ride!

I've got a 22 Creed being built now with a 7.5 Bartlein bbl. Stocked up on the easy to find Berger 85.5 bullets. I'd be curious to know what load you've been using.

 

[Flea21]

I've got a 22 Creed being built now with a 7.5 Bartlein bbl. Stocked up on the easy to find Berger 85.5 bullets. I'd be curious to know what load you've been using.

I’m glad to share but my data is meaningless considering your rifle is different than mine. I’m seating to 2.232 CBTO with 40.20grs of H4350, CcI #41 Primers, Peterson SRP Brass.

Again, this is the load that works for me after measuring my chamber and doing a safe load development process. The first thing I do after processing my brass is make a dummy round at the lands. Then I measure the H2O average of 5 cases, put all that data into QuickLOAD and take the max load and go 10 steps of .20grs less and check for pressure signs and accuracy. FYI, I usually start 0.015” off the lands. From there, fine tune the best load with seating depth if needed.

Good Luck and enjoy “hot rod” lol

 

[Lefty2506]

I was able to get out to SD this past weekend. The towns we were on this time were a little different than what we've done in the past (more wide open). Most of my misses were elevation related, which is the norm for me. We ended up doing a lot more shooting at +300 than normal, and I was thinking hard about upgrading from a 223 to a 22 ARC before my next trip. On a whim, I ran some numbers for 20 Practical, 223, 22ARC, and 22Creedmoor. I don't load for most of these, so I had to make some educated guesses on the velocities.

		Drop from 100 yds in inches				10 mph cross wind inches
Cartridge	300 yd	400 yd	500 yd		300 yd	400 yd	500 yd
20 prac 40gr 3850 fps	6.64	16.55	32.55		8.00	14.97	24.77
223 40gr 3800 fps	6.84	17.30	34.58		9.14	17.26	28.87
223 53gr 3500 fps	8.56	20.69	40.01		8.50	15.94	26.43
22ARC 53gr 3650 fps	7.59	18.55	36.04		8.06	15.08	24.93
22ARC 62gr 3500 fps	7.61	18.01	33.93		5.98	11.00	17.86
22CM 62gr 3600 fps	7.01	16.74	31.64		5.77	10.61	17.21
22CM 75gr ELD 3500 fps	7.42	17.74	32.42		5.03	9.19	14.82

I don't think its considered a hotrod, but I was shocked at how well the 20 Practical stacked up. A 22 ARC would let me push heavier bullets to cut down on wind drift, but I'm not missing a lot due to wind. While I like the idea of a 22 Grendel/ARC, it looks like I'd be better served by stepping down to a 20 Practical. If that's not enough, I'd need to step up to something like a 22 Creedmoor or bigger in order to see a big enough bump in performance over the 20 to make it worth my while.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I was able to get out to SD this past weekend. The towns we were on this time were a little different than what we've done in the past (more wide open). Most of my misses were elevation related, which is the norm for me. We ended up doing a lot more shooting at +300 than normal, and I was thinking hard about upgrading from a 223 to a 22 ARC before my next trip. On a whim, I ran some numbers for 20 Practical, 223, 22ARC, and 22Creedmoor. I don't load for most of these, so I had to make some educated guesses on the velocities.

		Drop from 100 yds in inches				10 mph cross wind inches
Cartridge	300 yd	400 yd	500 yd		300 yd	400 yd	500 yd
20 prac 40gr 3850 fps	6.64	16.55	32.55		8.00	14.97	24.77
223 40gr 3800 fps	6.84	17.30	34.58		9.14	17.26	28.87
223 53gr 3500 fps	8.56	20.69	40.01		8.50	15.94	26.43
22ARC 53gr 3650 fps	7.59	18.55	36.04		8.06	15.08	24.93
22ARC 62gr 3500 fps	7.61	18.01	33.93		5.98	11.00	17.86
22CM 62gr 3600 fps	7.01	16.74	31.64		5.77	10.61	17.21
22CM 75gr ELD 3500 fps	7.42	17.74	32.42		5.03	9.19	14.82

I don't think its considered a hotrod, but I was shocked at how well the 20 Practical stacked up. A 22 ARC would let me push heavier bullets to cut down on wind drift, but I'm not missing a lot due to wind. While I like the idea of a 22 Grendel/ARC, it looks like I'd be better served by stepping down to a 20 Practical. If that's not enough, I'd need to step up to something like a 22 Creedmoor or bigger in order to see a big enough bump in performance over the 20 to make it worth my while.

I just ran the numbers comparing the 62 eldvt to the 20 cal 40 vmax at the velocities you stated.

They are virtually identical trajectories, as you stated.

I would be very interested to see if the 22 ARC can send a 62 at those speeds. Those are the same speeds we are shooting in 22 br ackley.

 

[Lefty2506]

I just ran the numbers comparing the 62 eldvt to the 20 cal 40 vmax at the velocities you stated.

They are virtually identical trajectories, as you stated.

I would be very interested to see if the 22 ARC can send a 62 at those speeds. Those are the same speeds we are shooting in 22 br ackley.

Yeah, that speed is a guess on my part. The BRA looks to have slightly more case capacity, but it seems like the Grendel based cartridges are ever so slightly more efficient making me think they are either ballistic twins, or are close enough that the differences are insignificant. Either way, the 20 shoots a little flatter than the 22ARC, but the ARC holds up better in the wind.

By the time we had everything packed up to head home, I was certain that a 22ARC was in my future. It was just a question of whether I wanted a 20 first or not. After getting home and looking at some data, I'm definitely set on getting the 20 first, but questioning whether I even want a 22ARC. The BR/BRA/Grendel seems to have a pretty ideal case capacity for 22 cal, I'm just not convinced they offer enough of an advantage over the more economical 20 Practical to justify my effort. While it would be a much more expensive critter to feed, I can certainly see the advantage of cartridges like the 22-250aI, 22CM/XC, and 22-243.

 

[alintx]

What distance do you want to use it for? I spun up a 26" 8twist 22creed last year, as well as a 22-250ai 12 twist. I thought the creed shooting 75 eldm's @3500 was going to be king. But honestly, the AI shooting 53's @4000 was superior out to 500.
I am testing the new 62VT's in the creed right now. 3800 is no issue, just need to improve the accuracy a bit before I'll commit to it for next months trip.

Same here. Seven twist kreiger in 22/250 Ackley shooting 55-60s sends parts skyward, and extremely accurate. Started on pdogs at 23 rounds and finished barrel breakin killing em! It's a laser, and with my omega on it, can still watch most Hits. Forgot my anchor brake, but can't wait to do it again!! Easily hitting at 500+ till the wind got up, then the 6br took over

 

[Gabe22BR]

Got one in the works, Zack is making one for me and my brother. Why not

What dies ya gonna use ??

 

[nakneker]

What dies ya gonna use ??

Zack’s gonna make the sizing dies, he’s making one for himself too. Not sure on the seating die yet, haven’t really thought about it. Zack just made a sizing for a 25 Saum improved he just built for me, the die works great.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Vaporizer… I got the scoop

 

[Bodhisafa]

Could you imagine 40 grainers, probably wouldnt make it 50 yards before turning to comet dust. Three of us are building them, should have them by fall.

Back in topic a bit. I didn’t build a 22 creed but I did build a 22x47, the Creed is certainly on easier choice though.

Tell me about the 22 x 47.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Yeah, that speed is a guess on my part. The BRA looks to have slightly more case capacity, but it seems like the Grendel based cartridges are ever so slightly more efficient making me think they are either ballistic twins, or are close enough that the differences are insignificant. Either way, the 20 shoots a little flatter than the 22ARC, but the ARC holds up better in the wind.

By the time we had everything packed up to head home, I was certain that a 22ARC was in my future. It was just a question of whether I wanted a 20 first or not. After getting home and looking at some data, I'm definitely set on getting the 20 first, but questioning whether I even want a 22ARC. The BR/BRA/Grendel seems to have a pretty ideal case capacity for 22 cal, I'm just not convinced they offer enough of an advantage over the more economical 20 Practical to justify my effort. While it would be a much more expensive critter to feed, I can certainly see the advantage of cartridges like the 22-250aI, 22CM/XC, and 22-243.

Of course, the trajectories are nearly the same, but wind drift of the 40 VMAX is about 1.5 times over the 62 ELDVT.

This is where we discovered the problems of the lower bc. Because a miss of 1/8 inch left or right in the wind, is still a miss.

 

[Lefty2506]

Of course, the trajectories are nearly the same, but wind drift of the 40 VMAX is about 1.5 times over the 62 ELDVT.

This is where we discovered the problems of the lower bc. Because a miss of 1/8 inch left or right in the wind, is still a miss.

Totally agree. Having said that, I was running a 223 with a 53gr vmax at around 3500 fps and had VERY few misses due to windage. 90% of my misses were high or low, with most of those being low. Basically, it might be windy, but the wind is more consistent than the distance. Obviously, there's a limit to that statement, but for the shooting condition's I've experienced in my last couple of trips, that's the way its been.

Before the last trip I was thinking that a good 2 gun setup for me would be a 20 Practical and a 22ARC. After getting back and running numbers, I better understand the value of the bigger cartridges even though they consume a LOT more powder. I could certainly run a 22 ARC to push a 62gr bullet to get less wind drift, but its not going to do much to help with my vertical misses. I'd be better off jumping to the bigger cases to get a flatter AND straighter trajectory

 

[urbanrifleman]

Totally agree. Having said that, I was running a 223 with a 53gr vmax at around 3500 fps and had VERY few misses due to windage. 90% of my misses were high or low, with most of those being low. Basically, it might be windy, but the wind is more consistent than the distance. Obviously, there's a limit to that statement, but for the shooting condition's I've experienced in my last couple of trips, that's the way its been.

Before the last trip I was thinking that a good 2 gun setup for me would be a 20 Practical and a 22ARC. After getting back and running numbers, I better understand the value of the bigger cartridges even though they consume a LOT more powder. I could certainly run a 22 ARC to push a 62gr bullet to get less wind drift, but its not going to do much to help with my vertical misses. I'd be better off jumping to the bigger cases to get a flatter AND straighter trajectory

We had the opposite experience. The 62 ELDVT was 3 times better in bad conditions. Hits went down to about a third for me when I switched. Very small misses. With the 62 ELDVT I went 7 for 8 at over 300 yards in shifting winds.

 

[AckleymanII]

It is a different bolt face, but the 223 AI shooting the 53g V max at 3700+ covers a lot of ground with only a smidge of powder. The 223 AI using AA2230 Or H335 will run 3500+ rounds on a barrel before the barrel needs setting back, starting off with zero to .020 freebore. Around 27g of H335 with a Rem 7 1/2 primer gets the job done in spades, 50g go up to 28g for 3800 fps.

In the Creed with a fast twist, 800-1200 rounds is realistic, depending on how fast you shoot. If you go this route, consider urbanriflemans barrels and advise.

I order McMillen Hunter class and old benchrest style stocks, hollow up front and in the rear. You can get a 30" max Heavy varmint weight rifle up to 28 lbs by adding bird shot in casting resin. I like my 223s and variants to weigh 19 lbs and with the addition of a muzzle break, you feel little to nothing when the powder is ignited.

After reading Urban's comment above, I would be all over the 62s in a 223 AI.

I can not stress enough that H335, Win 748, And AA2230 is easy on throats in the 223, AI, and BR cases.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It is a different bolt face, but the 223 AI shooting the 53g V max at 3700+ covers a lot of ground with only a smidge of powder. The 223 AI using AA2230 Or H335 will run 3500+ rounds on a barrel before the barrel needs setting back, starting off with zero to .020 freebore. Around 27g of H335 with a Rem 7 1/2 primer gets the job done in spades, 50g go up to 28g for 3800 fps.

In the Creed with a fast twist, 800-1200 rounds is realistic, depending on how fast you shoot. If you go this route, consider urbanriflemans barrels and advise.

I order McMillen Hunter class and old benchrest style stocks, hollow up front and in the rear. You can get a 30" max Heavy varmint weight rifle up to 28 lbs by adding bird shot in casting resin. I like my 223s and variants to weigh 19 lbs and with the addition of a muzzle break, you feel little to nothing when the powder is ignited.

After reading Urban's comment above, I would be all over the 62s in a 223 AI.

I can not stress enough that H335, Win 748, And AA2230 is easy on throats in the 223, AI, and BR cases.

We will be shooting the 62s in the 223a. Made for the 8 twist!!

I am going to shoot two rifles on pdogs. 22bra and 223 Ackley. Both shooting the 62 ELDVT at 3500 ish.

 

[Lefty2506]

We had the opposite experience. The 62 ELDVT was 3 times better in bad conditions. Hits went down to about a third for me when I switched. Very small misses. With the 62 ELDVT I went 7 for 8 at over 300 yards in shifting winds.

We had +30 mph winds the first day, so we cheated. We moved around the town and set up to either shoot directly into the wind or directly down wind, and kept our shots to under 200 yds. We also either shot from sitting positions off the tripods, or went prone to keep our bodies down out of the wind as much as possible. If I were going to try to go 300 yds with a cross wind like that, I'd absolutely insist on at LEAST 62gr screaming along at 3500 fps or more. I enjoy a challenge and all, but at some point I'm just unloading brass. We had a new guy with us that struggled with that concept

Any idea how fast you are pushing the 62gr with the 223 AI?

 

[urbanrifleman]

We had +30 mph winds the first day, so we cheated. We moved around the town and set up to either shoot directly into the wind or directly down wind, and kept our shots to under 200 yds. We also either shot from sitting positions off the tripods, or went prone to keep our bodies down out of the wind as much as possible. If I were going to try to go 300 yds with a cross wind like that, I'd absolutely insist on at LEAST 62gr screaming along at 3500 fps or more. I enjoy a challenge and all, but at some point I'm just unloading brass. We had a new guy with us that struggled with that concept

Any idea how fast you are pushing the 62gr with the 223 AI?

Will know soon. More testing coming. Should be able to equal the 22bra.

 

[Lefty2506]

Will know soon. More testing coming. Should be able to equal the 22bra.

What?!?!? Am I missing something here? I was under the impression that the AI bumps the 223 up by MAYBE 100fps which would put it in the 3100 to 3200 fps range with a 62gr ELD, where as the BRA should be getting in the 3500 range.