I want a new hotrod - 22creedmoor

[Lefty2506]

If we're talking about BR size cases, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a 22arc. Near as I can tell, factory brass is still pretty hard to come by, but 6.5G brass is available at pretty reasonable prices compared to BR brass, and stepping it down to 22 cal would be pretty straight forward. With it sharing the same heritage as the PPC cartridges, I'm not sure what advantage any of the BR variants would have on it. The 22 ARC is definitely not in the same class as a 22CM, 22XC, or 22-250AI, but it should have no problems running a 75gr ELD out to 500 yds in a bolt gun.

That said, if most of your shooting is within 300 yds, I'd opt for a 20 practical. Brass is SUPER easy to make for really cheap and it should be really easy to spot your hits and misses, not to mention its cheap to shoot.

Brass cost and availability are pretty important factors for me, and the 20 Practical and 22 ARC look really good in that category. Having a nice rifle is great, but having to pay well over $1 for each piece of brass makes my sphincter pucker.

 

[urbanrifleman]

If we're talking about BR size cases, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a 22arc. Near as I can tell, factory brass is still pretty hard to come by, but 6.5G brass is available at pretty reasonable prices compared to BR brass, and stepping it down to 22 cal would be pretty straight forward. With it sharing the same heritage as the PPC cartridges, I'm not sure what advantage any of the BR variants would have on it. The 22 ARC is definitely not in the same class as a 22CM, 22XC, or 22-250AI, but it should have no problems running a 75gr ELD out to 500 yds in a bolt gun.

That said, if most of your shooting is within 300 yds, I'd opt for a 20 practical. Brass is SUPER easy to make for really cheap and it should be really easy to spot your hits and misses, not to mention its cheap to shoot.

Brass cost and availability are pretty important factors for me, and the 20 Practical and 22 ARC look really good in that category. Having a nice rifle is great, but having to pay well over $1 for each piece of brass makes my sphincter pucker.

I am 20 Practical is cool and all, but why is a 40 grain bullet in a 20 better than a 40 grain bullet in a 223?

 

[Bill K]

Think you will find it on the weight of your rifle and how you can handle recoil, rather than the bullet type.

I'm not opposed to a heavier bullet. Can you see the hits at 200 yards if you're shooting the 62 eld-vt it 75eldm?

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think we all want to see that video!

Here you go

 

[1lessdog]

I took some screens captures from the movie he sent me. Now keep in mind, this is not a prairie dog. This is a groundhog. A groundhog is the size of a raccoon or larger. This Hornady 80 ELDX sent this groundhog into mid-air while it split it in two. This non hot rod launched a groundhog two feet in the air. That's about a 6 to 10 lb animal.

View attachment 1556923View attachment 1556924View attachment 1556925View attachment 1556926

I can do the samething with a 30-06 and Hornady 150 SST. It will open him up like a can of Tomato soup.

I have shot Fox broad side with a 50 Blitzking and all I will say is, it was a mess.

I'm not trying to sell the 22 or 6 man bun like you are. I have shot 10,000's of rds at Prairie Dogs with everything from 17 Remington on up. And seen lots of 22 and 6 man buns and I am not impressed by then at all. Just a glorified 22-250 or 243.

My Dad would slap me if I shot a 6 to 10 lb coon. We have 15 lbs and bigger up north. And if I catch a little one I let them loose so they can grow up.

 

[1lessdog]

Up north is amazing what a 22 short hollowpoint will do to a 3 lb rabbit.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I can do the samething with a 30-06 and Hornady 150 SST. It will open him up like a can of Tomato soup.

I have shot Fox broad side with a 50 Blitzking and all I will say is, it was a mess.

I'm not trying to sell the 22 or 6 man bun like you are. I have shot 10,000's of rds at Prairie Dogs with everything from 17 Remington on up. And seen lots of 22 and 6 man buns and I am not impressed by then at all. Just a glorified 22-250 or 243.

My Dad would slap me if I shot a 6 to 10 lb coon. We have 15 lbs and bigger up north. And if I catch a little one I let them loose so they can grow up.

Selling??? Hahaha that's hilarious. I've literally tried to "sell" everything BUT the Creedmoor, but people keep buying them, so I'll keep making them...

No matter the subject these days, there always seems to be that guy.

 

[1lessdog]

Selling??? Hahaha that's hilarious. I've literally tried to "sell" everything BUT the Creedmoor, but people keep buying them, so I'll keep making them...

No matter the subject these days, there always seems to be that guy.

No your the guy. A guy asked about building a hotrod. And I brought up a true hotrod 22-6MM AI

 

[urbanrifleman]

No your the guy. A guy asked about building a hotrod. And I brought up a true hotrod 22-6MM AI

What is the name of the thread? Good grief.

 

[Lefty2506]

I am 20 Practical is cool and all, but why is a 40 grain bullet in a 20 better than a 40 grain bullet in a 223?

Similar speed, better BC. Compared to the 223, it has a similar trajectory as the 40gr vmax, and noticeably flatter than a 53gr vmax, and less wind deflection than either one. Basically you're getting the trajectory of a 40gr vmax from a 223 with the wind deflection of the 53gr vmax and the without the additional recoil that the 53gr bullet normally produces. The recoil with a 53gr vmax isn't much, but (for me) its enough to make spotting my own shots a little bit of a challenge.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=e18b3846

Inside of 300 yds, the cheap and easy answer is to run 40gr pills from your .223. For me, past 300 yds a 40gr pill from a 223 starts getting blown around quite a bit so I prefer running the 53gr. 20 cal gets me the best of both. If wind is still too much for the 20 cal, or a 223 with a 53gr vmax, the 22 ARC with a 62gr ELD at 3500 fps runs a similar trajectory as the 40gr stuff out to 500 yds, but does a LOT better in the wind. Its just going to heat up faster and cost more to feed.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Similar speed, better BC. Compared to the 223, it has a similar trajectory as the 40gr vmax, and noticeably flatter than a 53gr vmax, and less wind deflection than either one. Basically you're getting the trajectory of a 40gr vmax from a 223 with the wind deflection of the 53gr vmax and the without the additional recoil that the 53gr bullet normally produces. The recoil with a 53gr vmax isn't much, but (for me) its enough to make spotting my own shots a little bit of a challenge.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=e18b3846

Inside of 300 yds, the cheap and easy answer is to run 40gr pills from your .223. For me, past 300 yds a 40gr pill from a 223 starts getting blown around quite a bit so I prefer running the 53gr. 20 cal gets me the best of both. If wind is still too much for the 20 cal, or a 223 with a 53gr vmax, the 22 ARC with a 62gr ELD at 3500 fps runs a similar trajectory as the 40gr stuff out to 500 yds, but does a LOT better in the wind. Its just going to heat up faster and cost more to feed.

Thank you.

 

[B23]

A guy asked about building a hotrod. And I brought up a true hotrod 22-6MM AI

So if a 22-6mm Improved is a "true hotrod" would that make a 22-6.5 PRC a super duper manbun hotrod since you appear to have your hate on for the Creedmoor's and what about a 22 SAUM, would that be a super super duper hotrod? Do you have your hate on for the SAUM's too and if so what 4th grade name would you call one of those?

I've never understood the hate some have for anything Creedmoor. Adult men calling the different caliber Creedmoor's silly names because they're butthurt a Creedmoor gets more attention then their favorite cartridge just exposes ones immaturity and is childish. If you're a 22-6mm Improved fan, cool, good for you but you don't have to hate on one to like what you have. Never shot the improved version but I've probably shot just about as many coyotes with a 22-6mm and 75gr Berger VLD's as anything else I have and for what it's worth they aren't perfect either. Rem 6mm brass is mediocre at best and that's if you can find any as well as they make for a long OAL cartridge and work best in either a medium or long action. My dad had one built in the mid 90's on a SA Rem 700. The OAL with those 75gr VLD's was to long for the standard mag box so it was a single shot until I put a Wyatt's extended mag box in it and turned it back in to a repeater. It shoots good and runs those 75's along at 3600 from a 24in tube but a 22 Creedmoor would do the same and have, much, better brass that is readily available not to mention a more workable COAL in just about any short action rifle.

 

[wboggs]

So if a 22-6mm Improved is a "true hotrod" would that make a 22-6.5 PRC a super duper manbun hotrod since you appear to have your hate on for the Creedmoor's and what about a 22 SAUM, would that be a super super duper hotrod? Do you have your hate on for the SAUM's too and if so what 4th grade name would you call one of those?

I've never understood the hate some have for anything Creedmoor. Adult men calling the different caliber Creedmoor's silly names because they're butthurt a Creedmoor gets more attention then their favorite cartridge just exposes ones immaturity and is childish. If you're a 22-6mm Improved fan, cool, good for you but you don't have to hate on one to like what you have. Never shot the improved version but I've probably shot just about as many coyotes with a 22-6mm and 75gr Berger VLD's as anything else I have and for what it's worth they aren't perfect either. Rem 6mm brass is mediocre at best and that's if you can find any as well as they make for a long OAL cartridge and work best in either a medium or long action. My dad had one built in the mid 90's on a SA Rem 700. The OAL with those 75gr VLD's was to long for the standard mag box so it was a single shot until I put a Wyatt's extended mag box in it and turned it back in to a repeater. It shoots good and runs those 75's along at 3600 from a 24in tube but a 22 Creedmoor would do the same and have, much, better brass that is readily available not to mention a more workable COAL in just about any short action rifle.

I also used to have a .22-6mm. Got it after talking with Lonnie in the Hornady custom die dept. I used WW brass, turned the necks and match prepped. Norma MRP. Berger 80.5, and Fed210 m primers were used in a 30" Krieger 1-8. Had great accuracy, in the 0.3 s but had to load single shot. Velocity was 3550 with no head case expanion up to 3600 with beginning pressure signs. After a few years I tired of it and
finally put a .308 barrel.on and sold it that way because no one wanted the .22 hotrod.
Now days I suspect a .22 creed would be fairly easy to sell.

 

[B23]

Now days I suspect a .22 creed would be fairly easy to sell.

I'm not that old, yet, but I find the older I get the more I appreciate top quality brass and "easy". We can debate what is a better cartridge then another till the cows come home so I see no point in even going down that road but there is no denying some cartridges not only have better components available for them but those better components and I'm mostly talking about the cases are more readily available then others.

After you get about so many of these things in all different flavors, shapes, and sizes the ones that are "easy" start becoming more appealing, at least they do for me.

 

[WSnyder]

that are "easy" start becoming more appealing, at least they do for me.

Same here. Brass ready to go is very appealing to me. I went Alpha for the 22CM. Readily available.

 

[Lefty2506]

I'm not that old, yet, but I find the older I get the more I appreciate top quality brass and "easy". We can debate what is a better cartridge then another till the cows come home so I see no point in even going down that road but there is no denying some cartridges not only have better components available for them but those better components and I'm mostly talking about the cases are more readily available then others.

After you get about so many of these things in all different flavors, shapes, and sizes the ones that are "easy" start becoming more appealing, at least they do for me.

Totally agree. To me, there are 3 different categories. One is the .223 Rem and any wildcats based on it like a .223 AI, or a 20 Practical. Then there are all the 22 cal cases based on the 220 Russian and BR cases. Then there's are the cases that are the big cases that are at or above the capacity of a 22-250. Arguing over the performance of cartridges within the same category is a Chevy vs Ford argument. Pick which category you want to be in, then pick the cartridge within that category that is the easiest one for you to use. That means brass is available at a reasonable cost per YOUR budget and barrels/rifles are available within YOUR budget with the appropriate twist for the bullets YOU want to shoot. As your willingness/desire to use larger calibers increases, the discussion gets a lot messier, but for 22 cal and below, it doesn't need to be all that complicated.

 

[wboggs]

I'm not that old, yet, but I find the older I get the more I appreciate top quality brass and "easy". We can debate what is a better cartridge then another till the cows come home so I see no point in even going down that road but there is no denying some cartridges not only have better components available for them but those better components and I'm mostly talking about the cases are more readily available then others.

After you get about so many of these things in all different flavors, shapes, and sizes the ones that are "easy" start becoming more appealing, at least they do for me.

I am classified as old by any definition and completely agree with you on "easy". I am in the process of switching to the 6.5 creedmoor for 90% of my rifle shooting.
Also, less recoil is up on the list after easy.

 

[wright brothers]

Well, the more I read here the more complicated this seems.
If the one makes hair grow on top of the head, I'll take two.

Fits .470 BF? Check
Feeds through
staggered 700 la follower? Check
Brass available? Check
Popular with the guys? DNC

Any I forgot?

 

[B23]

The smith that built my very first "built" rifle was a little older gentleman that was once a BR shooter/gunsmith then turned to pretty much only gunsmith work. He was a pretty straight forward kind of guy and had been around a long time and for me he was a wealth of knowledge. He was pretty easy going and when I was introduced to him he was at a point in his career that he didn't mind taking the time to answer the zillion questions I seemed to always have for him. It's kind of funny because of all the endless questions I asked him there are two things he said that I've remembered the most. One was, "you'll have years worth of trials and tribulations before you learn what is truly the important stuff" and the other was "you can make this game as hard or as easy as you want." and I remember him saying that to me on multiple different occasions. At first I just kind of glossed over it with a yeah mmhmm sure and truth be told there was probably an eye roll or two in there as well because I recall thinking what the hell does that even mean but "time" is a funny thing and has a way of putting things into perspective or maybe more accurately stated our perspective, the closer we come to full circle, has a way of rearranging on our list of priorities because many of the things I once had at the top of my list, now, barely barely make my top five.

 

[nakneker]

22 PRC-

Got one in the works, Zack is making one for me and my brother. Why not