I Really Don't Know Why?

[wildcatter]

Well, looks like no one has tried these faster compatible powders. I have loaded a few rounds with N135 with the 200 grain Hornady SST Interlock. Should make a good fireforming load.

I'll be finding out since no info is available. The N135 and XBR8208 are the two I care about. I know that Varget will give me the results I want, but would like to find something with these two as I have plenty to use up.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I think you would shoot a 25-06 more and still able to walk to the sofa.

 

[wildcatter]

Most think a 300 mag is hard recoil, and this about the same thing. Like I have said, it's hard to believe so many think this a hard recoiling rifle. Maybe they never fired a rifle built to absorb the recoil before transferring it to the shooter.

Big difference in shooting a light gun such as a Winchester Featherweight, in it's original purposly built light walnut stock from putting it into a fiberglass hunting stock like McMillan General Purpose Hunting stock. Even that same rifle in a Kevlar, or most newer Carbon stocks is totally different than the geometry and hard kicking characteristic's of the Walnut stock it was built in.

Now, 2024 arrives, and a stock that cost more than most rifles cost new, that is designed to absorb all that recoil most consider heavy, and it's a totally different gun. Most will tell you even a the 338 RPM at right at 5 LBS in this stock is amazingly more manageable for recoil for most. This will be around 7 1/2 LBS fully dressed. I think over my other even bigger calibers of the past this will be a pussy cat!

The joy of building your own with RIGHT COMPONENTS! Thrust me, lightening recoil is a big part of this build!! I just hope it is not as boring as the 25/06 you mention to shoot, hell I have 17 Mach IV's and 6x45 to shoot when I want boring,

 

[Steve Donlon]

I went shooting with my shooting buddy yesterday and he just got a 375-338 from an old friend and he sounds like you. He is a large man with many injuries. He is older than 70 and will not back down. Now he can barely walk. I mean no disrespect, sometimes boring is a wise choice when time takes it's toll. I said the same thing to him. And he sounded like you in response. Take care of yourself.

 

[358WCF]

Well, looks like no one has tried these faster compatible powders. I have loaded a few rounds with N135 with the 200 grain Hornady SST Interlock. Should make a good fireforming load.

I'll be finding out since no info is available. The N135 and XBR8208 are the two I care about. I know that Varget will give me the results I want, but would like to find something with these two as I have plenty to use up.

wildcatter, I believe N135 to be a bit too quick burning for optimal performance in 338-06 Ackley with 200s. Was just looking through my records & had tried N150 (2 steps slower in the N100 series) a while back. Case fill was noted as good. The quick series pressured out at 61gr & 2979fps in reformed Hornady 35 Whelen brass. Acceptable speed for my rifle, but group sizes working up to that 61gr were nothing to write home about & bolt lift became notable. A reduced load may shoot smaller, but also slower. I have a 338 Federal for that. Been meaning to try N160 with 200s, but haven't gotten around to it as H4350 & Big Game shoot so well.

From my experience N135 & 8208 (both very good 338 Federal powders) may do well with lighter bullets & should be good for fireforming the larger Ackley with 200s.

As always, YMMV. Stay safe.

 

[FNSafari]

I generally hunt deer with a moderate recoiling rifle, 6.5x55 or .308 Win. When me or my wife are lucky enough to get a moose permit my go to has been a FN made Mauser in 30-06 shooting a 200 grain Nosler partition at around 2500 fps muzzle. The rifle has a two step heavy contour barrel and with a scope and loaded, weighs close to 10 lb. Sounds heavy until you shoot it and experience very moderate recoil.

The last permit I had, I hunted 6 days for a bull with no luck. Saw cows but no antlers. I used an early 1960s FN made for Browning Safari grade .308 Norma Magnum. Same profile as the 06. With a 220 grain Nosler partition at 2600 feet per sec. the weight was welcome. The thing that amazed me was the accuracy of the rifle. Even with the recoil I could keep 3 shots to around 1.25" and best of all, the first shot from a cold, fouled barrel went right where it was aimed. We did a lot of walking and moving around to different areas during the week and a sling was a welcome accessory. For the terrain we hunt in Maine it's an ideal rifle. I could push that bullet faster but why? I could shoot 2.5" three shot groups at 200 yds by elevating the X hair 4". Beyond that I would be reluctant to shoot at a living creature, even one as big as a moose.

 

[wildcatter]

wildcatter, I believe N135 to be a bit too quick burning for optimal performance in 338-06 Ackley with 200s. Was just looking through my records & had tried N150 (2 steps slower in the N100 series) a while back. Case fill was noted as good. The quick series pressured out at 61gr & 2979fps in reformed Hornady 35 Whelen brass. Acceptable speed for my rifle, but group sizes working up to that 61gr were nothing to write home about & bolt lift became notable. A reduced load may shoot smaller, but also slower. I have a 338 Federal for that. Been meaning to try N160 with 200s, but haven't gotten around to it as H4350 & Big Game shoot so well.

From my experience N135 & 8208 (both very good 338 Federal powders) may do well with lighter bullets & should be good for fireforming the larger Ackley with 200s.

As always, YMMV. Stay safe.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. It sounds like it will do exactly what I want, again this is not a hunting load! But will provide a less expensive load with good accuracy, and cheaper bullets. I fully intend to do most of my work with the 180 AB for hunting loads with Varget, I just don't see a benefit using H4350 with this light of a bullet in the capacity this case is capable of. But,, when it comes to the 200 or 225 AB, Hunting loads will likely be targeted with H4350? But you assured me what I wany out of the N135 or XBR is likely to do what I want with the 200 grain SST's, thanks!

I generally hunt deer with a moderate recoiling rifle, 6.5x55 or .308 Win. When me or my wife are lucky enough to get a moose permit my go to has been a FN made Mauser in 30-06 shooting a 200 grain Nosler partition at around 2500 fps muzzle. The rifle has a two step heavy contour barrel and with a scope and loaded, weighs close to 10 lb. Sounds heavy until you shoot it and experience very moderate recoil.

The last permit I had, I hunted 6 days for a bull with no luck. Saw cows but no antlers. I used an early 1960s FN made for Browning Safari grade .308 Norma Magnum. Same profile as the 06. With a 220 grain Nosler partition at 2600 feet per sec. the weight was welcome. The thing that amazed me was the accuracy of the rifle. Even with the recoil I could keep 3 shots to around 1.25" and best of all, the first shot from a cold, fouled barrel went right where it was aimed. We did a lot of walking and moving around to different areas during the week and a sling was a welcome accessory. For the terrain we hunt in Maine it's an ideal rifle. I could push that bullet faster but why? I could shoot 2.5" three shot groups at 200 yds by elevating the X hair 4". Beyond that I would be reluctant to shoot at a living creature, even one as big as a moose.

This is good sound reality advice, THANKS! Far to many don't understand a 7# medium bore rifle with 3000 fps is not even capable of the accuracy a heavy barrel 9 or 10 pound rifle can be, even off a bench, lest likely in the field!

This is what will determine my loads in this rifle, but I will not entertain more weight for the sake of longer range! I will live with whatever it is capable of as built with the #4 contour, and 20 oz stock on the Remington 700 long action. The only place I am going for a heavier option on any of the components is the scope. and even that is only going to give me about 4 oz more 1/4 lb. But he Leica 3-18x44i is to perfect of an optic for this build to worry about the 1/4 lb it offers, over lighter options in a larger package.

I truly hope, and think, I get 3/4 moa for 3 shot groups with this rifle. Like you the main thing will be tested hard, same POI for those 3 shots from a cold barrel, and that is all I care about. with a 200 to 210 grain bullet, anywhere from 2800 to 3000 fps giving me that will thrill me!! Not to mention, it should instill the fear of God into anything within 400 to 500 yards of it!

For anything needing a 250 grain Partition or A-Frame 1.5 moa is more than adequate, and then we are taking drt inside 200 yards or so, as far as I would expect need for this type of game, and where it would be hunted.

 

[wildcatter]

I went shooting with my shooting buddy yesterday and he just got a 375-338 from an old friend and he sounds like you. He is a large man with many injuries. He is older than 70 and will not back down. Now he can barely walk. I mean no disrespect, sometimes boring is a wise choice when time takes it's toll. I said the same thing to him. And he sounded like you in response. Take care of yourself.

Well sounds like yer buddy is in worse shape than I. I don't guess if I can do these things, I do them every day! I just got done with my primitive camping trip for 3 days of frigid temps, low single digits at night, upper teens for the day, not a sole around! Three private lakes joined by channels after damming a valley. Over 1 mile from a paved road, and then over 1/2 mile down and through the marsh to get to my camp. Ya I have a LP furnace in the 26" camper but that's it, no water no TV some Cell service, but spotty.

All three lakes are spring fed, no drainage into this lake but the woods and marsh that surround it, with a overflow on the south end! Everything a mile and half to the north drains to other drainages, same for everything east and west of this valley. No farm ground and only a handful of homes in the 2 1/2 mile wide 5 mile long valley the set in.

Loading the sled and heading out at 5:30 am setting tipups up and drilling many holes on the 1 1/2" to 3 1/2" surface carefully checking on safe passage as I went both days to have my sets made by 7am to be ready for the water wolfs before sunup! Knowing if anything goes wrong, or I go thru, there is no one around to help.

This how I've lived for 70 years, and hope to for another 20 before I think about slowing down. Trust me i have spent a lifetime doing what I enjoy, and ignoring the discomfort if it is encountered. After a near death encounter twice before I turned 40 I made it a point to enjoy everyday of my life like there might not be a tomorrow!

But trust me, I understand some do, but to me a 338 win mag is not what I consider an uncomfortable rifle to shoot, far from it, and that's a conservative statement! I have way to many things on my bucket list to slow down at this tender young age. It ain't bothered me yet, and even my kids find some of the things I do to tough for them! I get it, but trust me, you don't!




But after watching the temps hit 31 Thursday, and that means less ice on the already very thin ice, I decided to head home. But that was a pleasant surprise in itself, the Brux Barrel was waiting on the porch. So now it is to late to chump out! The barrel, action screws, mag follower and box, Lapua brass and deluxe Redding die set, with the Leica Amplus6 3-18x44i scope, are already secured, were just waiting on the 700 Remington Stainless Steel long action, BDL bottom metal, and the Peak44 stock are all that awaits this fine Big Game setup.


But trust me, in time this rifle will also have a 24" #4 sporter barrel chambered in 257 AI also using a Brux 1-9 twist for up to 120 grain real hunting bullets. For now the 180's will fill that barrels duty! Life is to short to lay down on it, throttle down and enjoy what God has instore for you, but never doubt him!

 

[wildcatter]

well folks, my gunsmith just an 8 week time out, before he can put any weight on his one foot. Shattered the heel! So I have a lot of time to think about this rifle, and what will I shoot?

Right now I have 180 grain Accubonds, and 225 Accubonds. What is everyone shooting and for what in this caliber. Only thing I care about are Jacketed Lead Bullets! I will never be a solid copper fan boy,,, Never in my guns! I just prefer to keep it real, and until I'm forced by law to use such inferior bullets.

I'll use what's worked for over 1/2 a century for me! Just to old to change, so don't bother try'n! So right now I'm thinking I can get pretty good accuracy, 3 shot groups around 1/2" or 5/8', around 3000 fps with the 180's. This would be my deer and smaller load, and want to be able to depend on 500 yards or a bit further?

Then for anything bigger than Mule deer out to 400 yards, I am thinking these 225's should be capable of hitting around 2700 or a little more? But would think around 3/4" 3 shot groups would be likely?

I'm I thinking clearly, or to much kool aid? been a long time since I had the 338 wm, hopefully I have a little better components today to work with, as well as hardware?

 

[Hntnhrd]

I shoot 225 grain partitions in my standard 338/06. With reloader 15 I can shoot cloverleaf s3 shot groups at 2560 fps.
I played around with H380 and the same bullet this winter. I am getting 2770 and no hard bolt life or marks on the brass. Primers are little flat but not cratered. Have not checked these yet for accuracy just was playing around for speed.

I shoot 200 grain e tips in my 338/06 AI. I get the same clover leafs type groups at around 2680 fps.
I would think a 225 grain accubond would be your ticket in the 2700 fps area

 

[FNSafari]

I'm young, 46. Good shape. I like my .338-06. but I feel like if I was 70 and had some more issues, I sure wouldn't like the 338-06. But I'd love a 6.5x55 Swede. Gotta build something odd, be different, pick a Swede

Only issue might be the case head rim diameter?

 

[ISS]

I am building my 257 Banshee, so that is enough for me, with a 25-284 for back up.

That said, I was able to neck 300WM down and end up with very close to the same powder capacity. Lots more brass to choose from as well. I turned the belts off of a couple and I think I could use those if my 6,5x68 Shuler brass source ran dry.
I still like the thumpers for an occasional trip to the range, or the fantasy of one more trip to Africa; so I will keep my 404 Jefferys 98 Mauser and 458 RUM OM70.

It is still a fun trip out to the gunroom just to pick rifles out and remember prior hunts.

After all, we only need a good 22 rimfire, a 12 gauge, and a 30-06 for this continent.

 

[ELR LVR]

Most think a 300 mag is hard recoil, and this about the same thing. Like I have said, it's hard to believe so many think this a hard recoiling rifle. Maybe they never fired a rifle built to absorb the recoil before transferring it to the shooter.

Big difference in shooting a light gun such as a Winchester Featherweight, in it's original purposly built light walnut stock from putting it into a fiberglass hunting stock like McMillan General Purpose Hunting stock. Even that same rifle in a Kevlar, or most newer Carbon stocks is totally different than the geometry and hard kicking characteristic's of the Walnut stock it was built in.

Now, 2024 arrives, and a stock that cost more than most rifles cost new, that is designed to absorb all that recoil most consider heavy, and it's a totally different gun. Most will tell you even a the 338 RPM at right at 5 LBS in this stock is amazingly more manageable for recoil for most. This will be around 7 1/2 LBS fully dressed. I think over my other even bigger calibers of the past this will be a pussy cat!

The joy of building your own with RIGHT COMPONENTS! Thrust me, lightening recoil is a big part of this build!! I just hope it is not as boring as the 25/06 you mention to shoot, hell I have 17 Mach IV's and 6x45 to shoot when I want boring,

I recently built a light 284 on an MDT Carbon Fiber Chassis and was surprised that it felt like the Carbon Fiber definitely Absorbed a decent amount of recoil, I tried it with and without the muzzle brake on and
could not really tell a difference without the muzzle brake while using 183 gr bullets
So I say you are on the right thinking regarding carbon fiber

 

[wildcatter]

I recently built a light 284 on an MDT Carbon Fiber Chassis and was surprised that it felt like the Carbon Fiber definitely Absorbed a decent amount of recoil, I tried it with and without the muzzle brake on and
could not really tell a difference without the muzzle brake while using 183 gr bullets
So I say you are on the right thinking regarding carbon fiber

I've had a little experience with carbon stocks, both these were benchrest stocks on rifles Dwight Scott builds, but till now, to many were just called carbon fiber, at less than 20 oz with pillars and but pads these are are true Carbon Fiber, and not carbon fiber in fiberglass.


Both these rifles had stocks that weighted under 19 oz with the weight system cap and butplates with no weight in them. The blue one was a Scoville, the black a Scarborough, and both are hand laid, full carbon fiber scrim.

I had two rifles built by Fred Sinclair when I was younger. Fred quit building rifles over 40 years ago. But those older McMillan stocks showed the tendency to absorb recoil, and feel more like a push than a jolt. Those were 300 Win Mag, and 338 Win Mag. But way softer recoiling than the same light hunting rifles on wood or other fiberglass stocks in the day. Both of those rifles were LA 700 Remingtons, and both wore the same sporter contour and had no problem delivering 1/2 moa accuracy, with the Varix 4-12 scopes they were using for optics.

My only concern is the lighter we build rifles, the harder it is to get the accuracy from them, when the barreled action is the same. Even benchrest rifles get more accurate the heavier you can make them. This why in competition we have weight limits. I assure you every shooter on the line is riding as close to that limit in every class as they allow.

This rifle should be a good pound lighter, maybe more. I just worry about the accuracy, I've never had an issue with recoil, even at my age.

 

[ELR LVR]

I've had a little experience with carbon stocks, both these were benchrest stocks on rifles Dwight Scott builds, but till now, to many were just called carbon fiber, at less than 20 oz with pillars and but pads these are are true Carbon Fiber, and not carbon fiber in fiberglass.
View attachment 1633187View attachment 1633193

Both these rifles had stocks that weighted under 19 oz with the weight system cap and butplates with no weight in them. The blue one was a Scoville, the black a Scarborough, and both are hand laid, full carbon fiber scrim.

I had two rifles built by Fred Sinclair when I was younger. Fred quit building rifles over 40 years ago. But those older McMillan stocks showed the tendency to absorb recoil, and feel more like a push than a jolt. Those were 300 Win Mag, and 338 Win Mag. But way softer recoiling than the same light hunting rifles on wood or other fiberglass stocks in the day. Both of those rifles were LA 700 Remingtons, and both wore the same sporter contour and had no problem delivering 1/2 moa accuracy, with the Varix 4-12 scopes they were using for optics.

My only concern is the lighter we build rifles, the harder it is to get the accuracy from them, when the barreled action is the same. Even benchrest rifles get more accurate the heavier you can make them. This why in competition we have weight limits. I assure you every shooter on the line is riding as close to that limit in every class as they allow.

This rifle should be a good pound lighter, maybe more. I just worry about the accuracy, I've never had an issue with recoil, even at my age.

I agree with you here, lovely rifles by the way, I like the looks of those stocks
I was really impressed with the carbon fiber because
1. The first MDT chassis I tried years ago was a POS floppy noodle,
The carbon fiber had perfect stiffness to it (So maybe MDT stepped it up )
2. even a light .243 rifle can start to hurt after a bit of repetetive shooting
Knowing this (Because I had one) My main rifle I built to weigh 20 lbs, full contour barrel, heavy AI chassis etc, and is a joy to shoot, but not a joy to carry
However after trying a Carbon Fiber stock coupled with a Bartlein Carbon Wrapped barrel as well
Caused me to rethink a light carry rifle that still retains great accuracy for Long Range Shooting.

 

[wildcatter]

I agree with you here, lovely rifles by the way, I like the looks of those stocks
I was really impressed with the carbon fiber because
1. The first MDT chassis I tried years ago was a POS floppy noodle,
The carbon fiber had perfect stiffness to it (So maybe MDT stepped it up )
2. even a light .243 rifle can start to hurt after a bit of repetetive shooting
Knowing this (Because I had one) My main rifle I built to weigh 20 lbs, full contour barrel, heavy AI chassis etc, and is a joy to shoot, but not a joy to carry
However after trying a Carbon Fiber stock coupled with a Bartlein Carbon Wrapped barrel as well
Caused me to rethink a light carry rifle that still retains great accuracy for Long Range Shooting.

That rethinking a light rifle really takes priority at 70, when I was 50 even 60 it was no big deal. I can take the noise, and the kick from one lightly squeezed shot on a hunt, I can't tote a 9# rifle anymore day after day hoping to get that one, well placed, kill shot.

But it has to be capable of putting that ONE SHOT, in the POA. Naturally I want 2 or 3 shots to group well, but the main goal, is that very first shot every trip to the range, hit where it is zero'd, every day. My wange confirmation with any hunting rifle is always to hang the target on the same backer every time I take it to the range and shoot the first shot every time on the same bul I shot the last day I was there. I then go to the bull beside that one and print 2 more. That's it, at least once I've settled on a load. After 4 or 5 trips, I will have my answer to how I will depend on that particular gun for hunting.

 

[ELR LVR]

That rethinking a light rifle really takes priority at 70, when I was 50 even 60 it was no big deal. I can take the noise, and the kick from one lightly squeezed shot on a hunt, I can't tote a 9# rifle anymore day after day hoping to get that one, well placed, kill shot.

But it has to be capable of putting that ONE SHOT, in the POA. Naturally I want 2 or 3 shots to group well, but the main goal, is that very first shot every trip to the range, hit where it is zero'd, every day. My wange confirmation with any hunting rifle is always to hang the target on the same backer every time I take it to the range and shoot the first shot every time on the same bul I shot the last day I was there. I then go to the bull beside that one and print 2 more. That's it, at least once I've settled on a load. After 4 or 5 trips, I will have my answer to how I will depend on that particular gun for hunting.

That is often my discipline these days
The first shot is what counts when live animals are concerned
Often I will load up, go out expecting to shoot for an hour or two,
but if my shot is on the money for round 1, 2 and 3
I call it good, session over, pack it up and go home
I am much more into consitency day in and day out nowadays than anything else
I took my 220 Swift AI out of the closet recently after sitting there for a year not being shot
Wanted to make sure it was still zeroed
Made my adjustment for 600 yds
Boom, 1st shot cold bore hit, I like that more than printing a few tiny groups
Ok, back in the gun case and session over, no need to keep wasting ammo to accomplish the same thing

 

[wildcatter]

Well the final item was shipped yesterday! I have also acquired one last component waiting on the final parts for this last rifle I build just for big game hunting. I picked up the a Jewel hunting trigger with the bolt release and safety with the spring installed to take it to 1.5#.

Only thing that will add later is the 257 barrel. and yes it would take an /06 case, but not for this hunter! I have a had the 25/06 and trust me, anyone with experience with the 257 AI knows how much more efficient the Roberts is at duplicating anything the /06 will deliver. The 257 Roberts will not only equal it without using an OVERBORE case, but will do so with more combinations delivering better accuracy with less load work.

But it looks like the party will begin next week when my gunsmith is given all the components. Then on one leg still we will see how it goes time wise getting everything together and just what the birth date will be on the finished product?

By the way, everything but the barrel and the Jewel trigger came from Pacific Tool & Gauge, and have seen a lot of negative post from folks regarding there delivery times. Many of the items I ordered were out of stock, some made to orders, and some BO'd. In my case this entire list was shipped well ahead of the 90 days they quoted me at the time of the orders.

I mention this because I think most that complain have little experience in ordering custom products. Today with so many fads out there such as social media chasers following PRC, F class, 600, and 1000 yards building their first chest pounder with custom parts, and chassis, and so on, demand is higher than before social media made these all seem like just spending money will get you a successful rig????????????

But the news is most will make my fad statement relevant and give up once they find out the work involved getting the results from what they built and delivering those goods in competition. Meanwhile, getting enough produced to meet these orders, we all have to understand why it it takes so long for some items. Not near the demand for the type of rifle I'm building here, but still over 60 days to get the items that were not high demand fad items are today! Hats of the PT&G, they did everything, in small bites, but all before they promised!

 

[ISS]

the 131gr Blackjack/Sierra .257" will make my Banshee a true long range Rockchuck to Deer cartridge. I researched it and found my 6,5x68 Shuler (parent case) has a big brother, an 8x68. It would cover everything except really Big Bears on this continent.

Building things to suit a specific animal is a wonderful thing. I have talked about my switch barrel 98 Mauser in 300 and 375 H&H set. Most African countries have a two rifle limit. This set up leaves room in the big case for my Owens 3" .500 NE.

Thas said, this thread has me thinking seriously about a 338-06. I have 200 brand new primed 35 Whelen cases.
Decisions, decisions, decisions...

 

[358WCF]

wildcatter,

Finally made it the range last week with the 200s & N160. I stopped at 63.5gr... because that's where it stopped as there's no data anywhere & I started low. Case fill was good, with no compression, with a note there's room to go higher if desired, easy extraction, & rounded primer edges.

Velocity was rather disappointing... 61gr gave 2579fps to start & the 63.5gr load tried was only 2719fps. Groups were not too bad, but... not sure if there's enough room in the case to get up to H4350s speeds. I loaded these middle of Jan. so dont remember exactly how full the brass was. No powder rattle when shaking, so... it's a good somewhat reduced load anyway. I may continue with N160 to see where the ceiling really is, or may try N555 next to get a feel for it in this cartridge.

Your rifle should be ready soon?