Why I do not miss my .338 Win Mag

[Brians356]

I shot mine when I was in my 30s, even then I didn't usually shoot over 20 per range session. After 18-20 the fun just seemed to diminish.

I feel the same about my pre-'64 M70 Featherweight in 30-06 with no recoil pad. Ouch! It was my dad's and the first centerfire I ever shot, at age 9 or so. With no ear protection. I never thought of my dad as abusive. ;-)
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[FNSafari]

3 moose with my FILs early 50s vintage FN (not Browning) mauser, 30-06 using the old nosler 200 grain partition semi round nose and 55 grains of IMR4350. That combination has been nothing but deadly on big moose. If I ever draw another permit I will prolly use the nosler partition 220 grain bullet principally because of its larger nose area...same profile as the old 200, in a FN Browning .308 Norma Magnum rifle. The only 200 patition nosler makes now is a spitzer. Shooting distances where I live tend to be 50-175 yds. Woods environment.

 

[GoWyo!]

I've got two Sako AV .338's. I'm also in process of buying an AV carbine in...338. (It's a 'catcher in the rye' thing.)! I've got two 330 class elk and a 6.5' black bear that I took with a Rem. 700 sendero in .338 WM. I used 200 gr Nosler Ballistic tips on the elk and factory RP 250 gr RN on the bear. The Noslers were complete pass through at 200 and 300 yds. ( Both were broadside middle lung shots.) The RP didn't hold together and didn't exit at 35 yds. Heart/lungs, broken off shoulder and the boar ran 80 yds. Elk died within 5 ft.. of being shot. All three guns are not lightweights, nor do they have brakes. I think that is the reason I'm a fan of the Sakos- Accuracy and proper heft for the caliber, helps to mitigate recoil, even with the hard, solid red pads on the AV's. My oem laminate gun will cloverleaf with 210 partitions and does well with 200 gr BT's. I don't know about the other. (It's NIB and I'm saving it for my son's 21st birthday). Synopsis- I'm still a fan. All of that said, I've shot most game (Whitetail, antelope, coyotes)over the past 20 years with various 6mms, my favorite caliber.

 

[358WCF]

I dont miss my 338 WinMag either. A push-feed M70, the only thing I ever got to shoot well out of it was 275 Speers. They were, even back then, long OOP & took the recoil at the bench to a completely different level.

Replaced it with a 338-06 Ackley which is more controllable & pleasant to shoot. I can just squeak 3000fps out of it with a 200 CT Ball. Tip or a 210 Nosler using 10-12 gr less powder with around 1" or smaller groups. What's not to like?

Over the years I tried probably all the non-Weatherby belted cases, but they're gone now except for 2 well behaved 300 H&Hs & a 35 Whelen LE Classic rechambered to 358 Norma in case something bigger than black bear ever lives in VA.

 

[rogn]

I have had limited experience with the pre 64 Winchesters. The 30-06 I did shoot had the worst designed stop I've ever shot. It was probably a pre1950(?) and the stock was designed for irons, but absolutely miserable beast to shoot.

That being said, the best way to mitigate recoil when shooting from the bench is to use a section of the white closed cell foam used in archery targets. It just eats recoil like nothing else. You can cut an appropriate sized piece out of the edge of a sheet, a tad bigger than the butstock.
I can bench shoot my 375R for 20-30 rounds of 3oo gr loads and still get out of bed the next day. I still try to list these sessions to less than 10 rounds at a time.

 

[ballisticxlr]

Hunting in Africa taught me the greatness of .338 and .375 rifles (which to me, .338 is where big bore starts) and the benefits of suppressors designed with recoil mitigation as much in mind as blast mitigation. I'm happy to shoot most American animals with a .243win or .308 or .30-06. Even a big 500lbs black bear fell pretty instantly to a .308 running 180gr round nose.

Of the bigger than a deer African game I've shot on the other hand, every single one was a first round heart shot with a .338 WinMag or .375 Ruger and every one of them took a second shot to finally nail their bodies to the ground. I hate big kicking guns and I dislike high pressure big bore rifles generally for being recoil monsters (meaning a black powder .45-70-500 doesn't bother me but a 250gr .338wm does). My only saving grace in Africa is suppressors are as common as dirt there and they make one called the Recoil Reaper which is small for a suppressor but still tames a light .338wm down to .308win recoil levels and keeps the blast tame enough that it didn't ring my ears.

With African animals, it seems like you really have to bring the stomp. I've come to prefer a .338 or .375 for game there. Keeps the walking down to a minimum but surprisingly doesn't always eliminate it.

Here's the Recoil Reaper suppressor on a Howa in .338wm. The eland took the first shot right to the pump (took the top off the heart) from 300m with a 250gr SST then it walked off ~2km. Once we caught up to it it took another one to the inside of one back leg to set its e-brake and that stopped it walking in the bushes and pushed it out into the low veld where we could get a clean finish shot. That final shot was a thump to the chest which knocked it finally down. I think it was just dead on its feet before that final shot. Unbelievably tough animal, and tasty! This bull was for a meat hunt, not a true trophy hunt. Trophy eland have a big matt of brownish yellow tangled fur in front of the horns instead of the little soul patch this guy's got. Really old eland don't eat as good as teenagers. Man was it tender and the taste was basically beef.

Then my kudu was taken with the same Howa 338 and suppressor. This shot was done from ~380m. The critter had it body facing directly away and its head twisted around to look back over the valley. No way it knew I was there but it probably was keying off of kudu cows that were running between me and him. The bullet went in behind the last rib and took the back off the heart and blew a lung and some large blood vessels to confetti. It still took him over 2 minutes to finally face plant during which time it didn't give a clean presentation for a follow-up shot. When I finally had a shot clear to plant him and I fired, he face planted at the exact same time and the shot missed. Good thing. It would have destroyed the head and I've had just a pair of shofar instead of a good European skull mount. BTW... kudu bull tastes exactly like blacktail deer buck that's been properly aged.

And then there's my other eland, this one a cow. It really solidified for me that I won't hunt with less than a .338wm for anything bigger than a deer while in Africa. This beestie took a .375 Ruger broadside to the heart from 50m and then walked about 10m more and laid down gasping its last. The only reason it wasn't running was I broke both of its shoulders with that shot. A .308 to the face finally convinced her to run up the curtain and join the choir invisible.

 

[FNSafari]

I have had limited experience with the pre 64 Winchesters. The 30-06 I did shoot had the worst designed stop I've ever shot. It was probably a pre1950(?) and the stock was designed for irons, but absolutely miserable beast to shoot.

That being said, the best way to mitigate recoil when shooting from the bench is to use a section of the white closed cell foam used in archery targets. It just eats recoil like nothing else. You can cut an appropriate sized piece out of the edge of a sheet, a tad bigger than the butstock.
I can bench shoot my 375R for 20-30 rounds of 3oo gr loads and still get out of bed the next day. I still try to list these sessions to less than 10 rounds at a time.

Another way is to use a Protektor brick style sand bag between the rifle butt and your shoulder.

 

[rogn]

Another way is to use a Protektor brick style sand bag between the rifle butt and your shoulder.

The foam sheet is so cheap and AMAZINGLY absorbent. 1 1/4" better than 2 limbsavers stacked.

 

[FNSafari]

like Teddy Roosevelt said in 'How My Guns Worked In Africa" regarding his .465 double rifle, he said of the brutal .465 double rifle brutal recoil "does not show above the surface when you are shooting at anything you ought to shoot at with this gun."

 

[Tommie]

A 30-06 loaded to its full potential is a formidable weapon and all I’d ever care to pull a trigger on. I never developed an argument with any critter needing more gun to dispatch than this combo.

 

[David Milisock]

Ok I really loved my 338 Win Mag which was a Winchester Pre 64 Model 70. Nothing at all wrong with the .338 Win Mag.

So I sold it and all of my rifles except for 3 old tired Mausers, Ruger 10/22 and a signle shot shotgun and everything else I owned to try to keep my home when I was downsized from major automotive corporation around the time the housing bubble burst as well!

I was forced to do more with less. So I had to use 8x57 Mauser and really use my reloading skills and better modern bullets. It opened my eye’s. Gone were the old under powered 150gr. and 170gr. Remington Cor-Lokts and in were hard hitting 170, 196gr, 200gr. hot hand loads.

Then I got a 30-06 and based on what I did with the Mauser’s I again really gave a lot of thought to how much I could push the 30-06 to do what I had previously used a 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Magnum for.

I finally got another 300 Win Mag and fast forward 20 years and my early use of 190gr bullets in the 1990’s was replaced with what I had learned with my 30-06 so now I was stepping into much heavier bullets 200gr, 208gr, 210gr., 220gr and 230gr……

Basically all of the above can be insanely deadly with almost no difference in lethality depending on the range your shooting at and bullet construction and how fast your pushing the bullet. Reloading is a fantastic equalizer!

A 300 Win Mag with 200, 208, 210 and 220 grain bullets loaded with conservative published reloading data not hot +P type loads can be just as lethal and in some instances more lethal than the classic 250gr. 338 Win Mag Factory and hand loads. If you eliminate the 200gr. bullets all of the others listed above have better B.C. and S.D. than the classic 250gr 338 Win Mag loads. All of this is easily true to 700 yards which I think is the longest range most ethical hunters are going to engage a game animal at.

If we drop down to say 500 yards you can do much the same in terms of lethality with the same bullets in a 30-06.

If we limit things to 350 yards and modern powerful but not unsafe published 8x57 loads 196gr. hunting bullets are deadly as can be but they have terrible SD and BC due to velocity.

Because everyone is so enamored with super magnums and 338RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Norma Magnum, 338 Lapu Magnum people forget just how deadly at long range something like a very old and very mild 300 Win Mag can be with modern bullet choices especially if we ignore the silly 150gr. loads of the past.

The old school 300 Win Mag can really have new life breathed into it not just for long range shooting but also hunting with the addition of modern heavy for caliper VLD and VLD controlled expansion bullets!

So today often we artificially limit ourselves based on how we think about a thing. A lot of old things can be made new again with better bullets and better powder of today! We do not always need a larger diameter bullet with larger frontal area or that burns more powder! The 8x57 and 30-06 made me rethink how I think of cartridges and what I think I need! I miss my 338 Win Mag not because of what it did but because it was a Winchester Model 70 Pre 64 in fantastic wood with fantastic machine work and finish! LOL… With the 30 caliber we seldom run into twist rate limits and we have a lot of bullets today that we did not have 30 years ago.

Anyone that has shot an Elk or Moose with a 300 Win Mag with anything from 180gr. to 220gr. knows how lethal it is.

P.S. Nothing wrong with the 338 Win Mag I often think about buying mine back from my father In-law then the above experiences and thoughts kick in and I just say no! LOL

I have a 358 Norma Magnum, McGowan built on a Remington 03 action, it shoots reall well. Years ago I did a favor for a client and he invited me at his cost to an Elk harvest for population control. Too much energy, ranges were longer out to 600 yards and it killed cleanly. In fact it dropped 2 like they were hit with a hammer, but it shot clean through them even after hitting heavy bone. However that was a rare hunt, I'm usually working at 50 to 350 yards.

Years later using a 7x57JS Mauser with 190 grain handloads had identical success at a bit under 350 yards. Hail handloading and old Mauser and 03'3s.

 

[FNSafari]

David, were you using bonded core bullets or partitions or A frame style bullets? If so I can certainly see why you had 100% pass through regardless of distance. IMO, bullet selection is a big deal, depending on the distance you expect to encounter, game species and the velocity to which you load. In the end, I would rather have pass through than not.

 

[David Milisock]

David, were you using bonded core bullets or partitions or A frame style bullets? If so I can certainly see why you had 100% pass through regardless of distance. IMO, bullet selection is a big deal, depending on the distance you expect to encounter, game species and the velocity to which you load. In the end, I would rather have pass through than not.

The bullet was a 250 grain Hornady SP at 3,200 FPS. First shot was a 400 yard broadside, well placed, a couple walking steps and he dropped.

Second shot was a bit over 600 yards, he was angled and I wanted to place a raking from left shoulder back to the right. Just as I fired he turned left so placement was directly on the shoulder, the bullet broke the bone and exited the left behind the rib cage.

I did not expect those results and now prefer my 06 or 8MM x 57JS especially for my usual shorter ranges. I think the Hornady in the 358 may blow up at shorter ranges.

 

[FNSafari]

The bullet was a 250 grain Hornady SP at 3,200 FPS. First shot was a 400 yard broadside, well placed, a couple walking steps and he dropped.

Second shot was a bit over 600 yards, he was angled and I wanted to place a raking from left shoulder back to the right. Just as I fired he turned left so placement was directly on the shoulder, the bullet broke the bone and exited the left behind the rib cage.

I did not expect those results and now prefer my 06 or 8MM x 57JS especially for my usual shorter ranges. I think the Hornady in the 358 may blow up at shorter ranges.

I think you are right.

 

[GoWyo!]

I received my Kokotukki Sako. It appears to be unfired.

 

[FNSafari]

Very nice !!

 

[Orr89rocz]

The bullet was a 250 grain Hornady SP at 3,200 FPS. First shot was a 400 yard broadside, well placed, a couple walking steps and he dropped.

Second shot was a bit over 600 yards, he was angled and I wanted to place a raking from left shoulder back to the right. Just as I fired he turned left so placement was directly on the shoulder, the bullet broke the bone and exited the left behind the rib cage.

I did not expect those results and now prefer my 06 or 8MM x 57JS especially for my usual shorter ranges. I think the Hornady in the 358 may blow up at shorter ranges.

250 at 3200? I didnt think that case had the capacity and hp to get that fast. Thats cooking

 

[David Milisock]

McGowan built 30" tube no taper, Remington 03 action, R19 powder, 1 1/8" at 300 if lay off the coffee. It took 2 years to find the load but that's not uncommon, my 6mm and 223 which push out 75 and 40 at 2,900 FPS respectively took that long too.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Just seems really hot and a fast barrel. Thats more than 338 ultra mag/lapua and even 375 ultra mag range of performance. Thats a hammer for sure

 

[David Milisock]

Most 358's have 26" barrels and are not loaded much above the the low pressure standards in the U.S.. Older Norma ammunition was loaded to 63,900 and I kept going to the case was filled, no flattened primers and the bolt opens easily with a pinky finger.