I dont need a new press...

[bigedp51]

Funny that I have been getting consistent shoulder bump on my competition and hunting brass all these years without competition S/H's and cam-over.....and I size by bolt resistance method (sans the mainspring). Perhaps my Boss presses have no slop.

And Redding made the Competition Shell Holders because "NO ONE" asked them to make them because there wasn't any demand. :

And at one time I used the resistance method as you do, BUT now I use a different method.............And if I want to measure resistance I use my volt ohm meter.

CatShooter sent me a PM and asked why I wasn't posting here much anymore.

The real answer is because there are too many midgets posting in forums and pretending too be giants.

I use the competition shell holders because once my dies are setup and producing minimum runout I don't like touching the die. The competition shell holders allows you to control shoulder bump when resizing without touching the die. And when reloading various brands of cases with different spring back rates this helps greatly, and as an example when reloading for my AR15 rifles.

So

On top of this my 42 year old Rockchucker press has had the linkage pivot pin fall out of it twice in the last two years so I know the press has a little slop in it.

The post topic is " I dont need a new press..." and my old Rockchucker is still going strong and produces cases with .001 runout. (it even cams over)

Therefore Mr. LHSmith you should remember you are not the only one reloading here or the only one who knows how to reload. :

 

[Raythemanroe]

Tight tolerance presses for sizing ? Doesn't the Forster allow for self alignment? That with a sleeved (capture die) comp die, Doesn't it allow for adjustments?


Ray

 

[bigedp51]

With respect to the ram having to be in contact with the shell holder in order to remove slop , I have to ask those that believe that theory this.

When you run a case up into your die and it is sizing the case do you have slop in your ram?? I say if you do you probably have the wrong die screwed in for that particular case lol.

When the die makes hard contact with the shell holder the press is removed from the equation, just like using Wilson type dies in a arbor press. Meaning all that matters is what happens inside the die with case alignment and runout.

Now try and visualize a worn pivot pin and the ram moving in relation to the pressure applied to the ram in the resizing operation.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and if a press didn't have clearances it wouldn't move.

 

[Patch700]

With respect to the ram having to be in contact with the shell holder in order to remove slop , I have to ask those that believe that theory this.

When you run a case up into your die and it is sizing the case do you have slop in your ram?? I say if you do you probably have the wrong die screwed in for that particular case lol.

When the die makes hard contact with the shell holder the press is removed from the equation, just like using Wilson type dies in a arbor press. Meaning all that matters is what happens inside the die with case alignment and runout.

Now try and visualize a worn pivot pin and the ram moving in relation to the pressure applied to the ram in the resizing operation.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and if a press didn't have clearances it wouldn't move.

Can't argue with you there Ed.

Now with respect to pins and linkage being worn again I say , If you can feel play in said pins and linkage while applying force during the sizing process you have bigger fish to fry than whether or not you are making solid contact with the shell holder when at top dead center..

Ray brought up the coax press , same thing applies you aren't going to see any movement in the press or the die or the case once it has started the sizing process. What that means is whatever slop there is in the entire system will be taken up and it will happen long before we get to that happy place where shoulders get bumped etc.

When I size my cases I don't assume the die is set due to it's contact with the ram , I measure and confirm as I'm sure you do too.

Yes with the use of reddings comp shell holders one can rule out some issues , they are a nice piece and I do use them for some cases. But that's not to say precise case sizing cannot be done without them or without the practice of having the ram make full contact with the ram.

What it does is take out the human factor when a person needs to adjust the lock ring a few thou. in order to creep up on a number.

 

[LHSmith]

and as an example when reloading for my AR15 rifles.

Ahah..... there-in lies the problem, my accuracy demands are separated by orders of magnitude from spray and pray afficionados. FYI -Google PMA die adjuster, or JLC ratchet die adjuster.....embrace the technology

 

[bigedp51]

and as an example when reloading for my AR15 rifles.

Ahah..... there-in lies the problem, my accuracy demands are separated by orders of magnitude from spray and pray afficionados. FYI -Google PMA die adjuster, or JLC ratchet die adjuster.....embrace the technology

Dear LHSmith

My AR15 A2 HBAR is considered a target rifle used for accurate target shooting out to 600 yards.

My AR15 M4 carbine is the same type rifle that Chris Kyle (American Sniper) carried when he wasn't using his longer range sniper rifles.

"spray and pray aficionados" my gluteus maximus.

I can't believe the amount of lemon sucking commie pinko perverts in this posting.

If you were talking about the Enfield rifle I use to fire long sustained bursts I "might" understand.

I might even understand criticizing my accurized Enfield rifle I bought from Boyd Allen...............

P.S. My Lyman Nut Cracker press doesn't cam over without breaking every bone in your hand...............and the tool.

NOTE: If you do not want your Rockchucker press to cam over then just tighten the die down until the dies threads start to smoke........and then give the die two more full turns. (like fguffy does)

 

[JRS]

This is absolutely hilarious ;D

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have read a bit of this and it seems that some times we get in our own little world and forget there is more to reloading than just the ppc, br, or dasher. There are large cases that really stress a press. If you think hard contact from the case holder to the die does not help consistency, you have not tried it. I can get good consistent bump with my hood press and dasher case, I get better consistency if I use the redding shell holders. Datum to case head within .0005" or +/- .00025".

 

[fguffey]

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

I have at least 4 Rock Chucker presses, none of my Rock Chucker presses cam over. When I raise the ram on one of my Rock Chuckers it goes to the top and then kicks forward, the bottom of the ram is kicked back because the linkage locks up, jams up or goes into a bind. I guess I should refer to the presses as 'Binders'. Non cam over binders.

Then there is that tool box latch, the vise grip would be a better example, it has been decided 70+ years ago the vise grip does not cam over, it was decided it has a patented design they referred to as being 'leaver lock'.

I have cam over presses, I have presses that do not cam over. My rock Chucker presses do not cam over. My Rock Chuckers have a top, they do not have a top dead center. The ram on my rock Chuckers go to the top and stop, the ram does not rock back and forth over top dead center.

I have presses that bump and I have presses that do not bump, the presses that bump are called cam over presses. And now it is fashionable to bump the shoulder .002".

F. Guffey

 

[JRS]

Rockchucker presses "cam over". It's part of the design. The Lee Classic Cast presses do not "cam over". They are made with a stop that prevents that function.

 

[fguffey]

Indeed lol... I have some dies kicking around here that are too small for certain chambers , you would need a shell holder with a deck height of no less than .140" to achieve this die touching shell holder scenario , yet I can size cases in that die and not have bump inconsistencies among 40 cases...

If I had a die like that it would have come from a misinformed reloader that had the bad habit of grinding shell holders and dies. I do have a chamber that is .016" longer than a minimum length case from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. I form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 for that one chamber. I adjust the die off the shell holder .014" when sizing cases for that chamber. I do not bump, I size.

F. Guffey

 

[Shynloco]

I'm curious. Have you done something to those Rock Chucker Presses that you say don't "CAM OVER?" I've never seen a Rock Chucker (including the two I own of which one is 30+ yrs old and the other 10 years+ old) that do not CAM OVER. Just curious as there can't be that many variations of a Rock Chucker.

Alex

 

[fguffey]

Rockchucker presses "cam over". It's part of the design. The Lee Classic Cast presses do not "cam over". They are made with a stop that prevents that function.

The Rock Chucker is designed not to cam over. Unbolt your Rock Chucker, turn it over and operate the handle, watch the linkage, the linkage collides, jams up, locks up and goes into a bind. the RC is a kicker, the linkage kick the ram back at the bottom, the ram being solid kicks forward at the top. The ram does not rock back and forth at top dead center because the RC does not cam over by design.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I ground the contact points on one press, grinding the linkage allowed the RC to cam over.

F. Guffey

 

[Shynloco]

I'll give that a try and see what I come up with. I know that my Redding Big Boss definitely does Cam Over and is my primary press for resizing. I use one RC for neck expanding and bullet seating that allow for a better and softer "feel."

Alex

 

[Joe Salt]

I always said when RCBS quit making the A-4 Big Max , they screwed up. They don't even make parts any longer. OH and they do cam over!

Wouldn't Buy a Rock Chucker.

Joe Salt

 

[JRS]

I ground the contact points on one press, grinding the linkage allowed the RC to cam over.

F. Guffey

There is an item called the swing link, "travel limit", to keep the linkage from continuing around and up, due to the design of the link. Thus, "cam over". You can't defeat it without modifying the linkage.

 

[LHSmith]

I ground the contact points on one press, grinding the linkage allowed the RC to cam over.

F. Guffey

So, if effect you modified it into a "bump press" (your terminology, not mine ) No different than my modified Boss press except I got 1/4" of downward ram travel after the ram reaches top of travel in one full stroke of the handle, in effect the case is FLS (or whatever) twice. In this manner, I KNOW the case was fully inserted into the die and no powder residue or granules, primer anvils, or any other debris got on the s/h face or the presses travel limiting contact points giving me a false feel that it has reached the "cam-over" point. Also when loading at the range one has to be vigilant that when clamping the press to a bench you allow full swing of the linkage without it bottom out before the ram reaching top of travel. I just do not trust the presses stop feature... I want to see the ram go up and return back down at the end of the handle stroke.

 

[CatShooter]

I have read a bit of this and it seems that some times we get in our own little world and forget there is more to reloading than just the ppc, br, or dasher.

My God... blasphemy.

Pretty soon, someone will mention, dare I say it...

... NECK sizing - there, I blurted it out - I am guilty - I do it 99% of the time, even for my bench guns, and nothing bad has happened (so far, though I do have aluminum foil in my hat)!!

 

[CatShooter]

I have at least 4 Rock Chucker presses, none of my Rock Chucker presses cam over.
F. Guffey

You should first count them so you know exactly how many you own... then send them all back to RCBS - they have wonderful customer service and they will give you back the missing cam-over (I think back when you were young, it was a special order option - along with a flint holder ).