I dont need a new press...

[RegionRat]

Ok, I see.

I use the Lee Collet dies for .30 cal with a RockChucker and still cam-over the press. No trouble.

I detailed my die and used automatic transmission fluid for lubricant with good results for decades. If your die is sticky, try detailing it and play with lube.

 

[titanxt]

What do you mean by "detailed"? Thorough cleaning? (I apologize on the newness here...)

Thank you!

Andy

 

[fguffey]

Quote



"I don't like presses that utilize cam-over"...
Just curious about your dislike for cam-over? Why?

I have cam over presses, I have presses that do not cam over. I have at least 4 rock Chuckers, none of my Rock Chuckers cam over. One of my favorite presses is the 2 ram Herter press, then there is the 'U' press. If my Rock Chuckers cammed over I would render my progressive presses scrap. Parts for old progressive presses could be difficult to find. I have found extra parts and have no plans on using them.

F. Guffey

 

[CatShooter]

Quote

"I don't like presses that utilize cam-over"...
Just curious about your dislike for cam-over? Why?

I have cam over presses, I have presses that do not cam over. I have at least 4 rock Chuckers, none of my Rock Chuckers cam over. One of my favorite presses is the 2 ram Herter press, then there is the 'U' press. If my Rock Chuckers cammed over I would render my progressive presses scrap. Parts for old progressive presses could be difficult to find. I have found extra parts and have no plans on using them.

F. Guffey

There is obviously a language, semantics, definitions, communications problem here...

ALL RockChuckers "Cam over" it is in the basic design of the press... and that includes the A-2, A-3, and A-4 presses.

Most progressives (ALL that I have seen) do not.

 

[fguffey]

Cam over press

ALL RockChuckers "Cam over" it is in the basic design of the press... and that includes the A-2, A-3, and A-4 presses.

The A-2 press cams over. My Rock Chuckers presses do not cam over, they lock up, jam and or go into a bind, the locking up, jamming up or going into a bind prevents my Rock Chucker presses from camming over. I have 2 Piggy Back loaders, my Piggy back 11 loaders mount on the top of my Rock Chucker presses.

I have at least 7 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses cam over. I have instructions for adjusting presses that cam over for cam over, I have instructions for adjusting presses for non cam over presses. Both sets came from RCBS.

There is obviously a language, semantics, definitions, communications problem here...

F. Guffey

 

[dkhunt14]

My Rockchucker cams over and so does my A4 and my Redding. Matt

 

[Patch700]

You want to see if your press "Cams over" or whatever you would like to call it simply do this...

Go into your box of goodies and grab an indicator , now set it up through the top of the press so when the handle is lowered to the stops it is reading .100"

now lower the ram (raise handle , lets not confuse some people) while watching the gauge , does the gauge increase to say .120" before it falls back to .100" ? Well guess what that is.... It rhymes with Ham over and it equates to .020" of it.

The key word here guys is "Over" meaning reaches a certain point and then begins descent before stopping.

 

[fguffey]

Go into your box of goodies and grab an indicator , now set it up through the top of the press so when the handle is lowered to the stops it is reading .100"

[/quote]

No load, no die, raise the ram. the linkage on my Rock Chuckers collide and jam up before the ram starts to return. The linkage jamming up kicks the ram back at the bottom and forward at the top. If I install a die I can adjust the die down to the shell holder, if the shell holder contacted the bottom of the die and the press cammed over I should be able to adjust the die to lock up the press. Locking the press up by eliminating cam over should require additional effort to lower the ram when the top of the press springs up.

If my Rock Chucer presses cammed over I could measure it with a feeler gage, the feeler gage thickness would indicate the amount of cam-over.

now lower the ram (raise handle , lets not confuse some people) while watching the gauge , does the gauge increase to say .120" before it falls back to .100"

If your prress cammed over .120" you would need a cheater bar on the handle or you would be required to back the die off.

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

You want to see if your press "Cams over" or whatever you would like to call it simply do this...

Go into your box of goodies and grab an indicator , now set it up through the top of the press so when the handle is lowered to the stops it is reading .100"

now lower the ram (raise handle , lets not confuse some people) while watching the gauge , does the gauge increase to say .120" before it falls back to .100" ? Well guess what that is.... It rhymes with Ham over and it equates to .020" of it.

The key word here guys is "Over" meaning reaches a certain point and then begins descent before stopping.

By the above definition, both my RC's have zero cam over, the right side linkage arm contacts the handle / ram interface block precluding any further upward movement. one press is early 70's the other early 2000 model.
On my Redding Boss Presses (which I believe is a better design) I removed the roll pin limiting upward ram stroke and I can see the ram reach Top of Travel, and it will retreat downward 1/4" beyond Top of Travel....in effect the case gets sized twice in one movement of the handle.

 

[Patch700]

Go into your box of goodies and grab an indicator , now set it up through the top of the press so when the handle is lowered to the stops it is reading .100"

No load, no die, raise the ram. the linkage on my Rock Chuckers collide and jam up before the ram starts to return. The linkage jamming up kicks the ram back at the bottom and forward at the top. If I install a die I can adjust the die down to the shell holder, if the shell holder contacted the bottom of the die and the press cammed over I should be able to adjust the die to lock up the press. Locking the press up by eliminating cam over should require additional effort to lower the ram when the top of the press springs up.

If my Rock Chucer presses cammed over I could measure it with a feeler gage, the feeler gage thickness would indicate the amount of cam-over.

now lower the ram (raise handle , lets not confuse some people) while watching the gauge , does the gauge increase to say .120" before it falls back to .100"

If your prress cammed over .120" you would need a cheater bar on the handle or you would be required to back the die off.

F. Guffey
[/quote]

Mr Guffey..... Respectfully I believe you missed the point? At no point did I say the press cammed over .120" , the numbers are neither here nor there in this instance... Nor did I say when performing this test that a die would be inserted into the press. The reason for setting up the gauge to read .100" when linkage was in full bind is merely for reference as opposed to setting it to zero.

You don't have to take my word for it as I'm quite sure you have an indicator gauge and can perform the test for yourself on your rock chucker..

Now when you take a press that does not show any movement at the top of its stroke then yes , that would be to say that it is not camming over and should not be confused with the same press that when a die is screwed down to a point beyond initial contact it cams over .

As you have stated , " If I install a die I can adjust the die down to the shell holder, if the shell holder contacted the bottom of the die and the press cammed over I should be able to adjust the die to lock up the press." Absolutely and having said that your press would have cam over.

 

[Patch700]

By the above definition, both my RC's have zero cam over, the right side linkage arm contacts the handle / ram interface block precluding any further upward movement. one press is early 70's the other early 2000 model.
On my Redding Boss Presses (which I believe is a better design) I removed the roll pin limiting upward ram stroke and I can see the ram reach Top of Travel, and it will retreat downward 1/4" beyond Top of Travel....in effect the case gets sized twice in one movement of the handle.
[/quote]

By definition yes you have induced .250" of cam over.... Personally I do not like any cam over in any of the process as I want the highest point of travel to be one where I can leave the press in that state be it for bumping or seating .

 

[fguffey]

Respectfully

\
That would take some time for me to get used to.

Before I would argued with someone I would take the time to unbolt one of my rock Checkers or I would crawl under the stand to check the linkage. I have at least three Rock Chuckers that are not bolted down, again, not one of my Rock Chuckers cam over. All of my Rock Chuckers lock up like a vise grip, vise grips have a design that is referred to as being leaver lock.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Travel, and it will retreat downward 1/4" beyond Top of Travel....in effect the case gets sized twice in one movement of the handle.

And someone is going to reinvent 'bump', a press that cammes over is also know as a bump press. Too long ago and now forgotten reloaders before the Internet used the bump feature, now? Everyone bumps the case .002" everyone except me, I can not bump the shoulder without bumping the neck and case body.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I use 2 Rock Chuckers on two Piggy Back 11 reloaders. The Piggy Back 11 is a progressive press with auto indexing. The shell plate advances/indxes in one direction, it can only movew in one direction, like a one way clutch in an automatic transmission. The Piggy Back has a one way clutch, if the press cammed over the shell plate would back up. RCBS knows this.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

Redding
Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Some Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/132-faqs1

Question: I have my Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die adjusted so that it is touching the Shellholder and I cannot push my shoulder back. Is there something wrong with my Sizing Die?


Answer: Probably not. In most instances, using Cam-Over will allow the reloader to push the shoulder back sufficiently.

To set a Full Length/Body Die up to Cam-Over:

1) Install the appropriate Shellholder into the Ram of your Press.

2) Raise the Ram so that it is in its uppermost position.

3) Screw the Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die down into the press until it firmly contacts the Shellholder.

4) Back the Ram away from the Die.

5) Screw the Die down FURTHER into your press an additional 1/8th to ¼ turn.

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

These directions apply only to standard Single Stage Presses. If your single stage press was not manufactured by Redding Reloading Equipment, please contact the manufacturer to see if using Cam-Over is appropriate for your particular Reloading Press.





These Redding Competition shell holders below allow you to adjust the amount of shoulder bump, "AND" still have the press cam over. Press cam over eliminates any slop from your press and the sizing operation and thus effecting shoulder bump.

What we are looking for below is adjusting the die for the correct amount of shoulder setback (shoulder bump) for our rifles chamber and getting constant cartridge headspace readings. With the Competition shell holders we are adjusting the shell holder to fall somewhere between the red and green dotted lines below and still have the press cam over.

If you notice Redding doesn't use any "magic" feeler gauges to adjust shoulder setback/bump.

And the RCBS setup directions below tell us to reach cam over with our Rockchucker presses. :

 

[bigedp51]

There is obviously a language, semantics, definitions, communications problem here...

ALL RockChuckers "Cam over" it is in the basic design of the press... and that includes the A-2, A-3, and A-4 presses.

Most progressives (ALL that I have seen) do not.

Its doesn't have anything to do with semantics, definitions or communications.

Headspace is also the distance between your ears and how you use the gray matter in-between. And some people do not have their synaptic network functioning properly.

And some people post nothing but.............................

 

[CatShooter]

Redding
Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Some Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/132-faqs1

Question: I have my Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die adjusted so that it is touching the Shellholder and I cannot push my shoulder back. Is there something wrong with my Sizing Die?


Answer: Probably not. In most instances, using Cam-Over will allow the reloader to push the shoulder back sufficiently.

To set a Full Length/Body Die up to Cam-Over:

1) Install the appropriate Shellholder into the Ram of your Press.

2) Raise the Ram so that it is in its uppermost position.

3) Screw the Full Length Resizing Die/Body Die down into the press until it firmly contacts the Shellholder.

4) Back the Ram away from the Die.

5) Screw the Die down FURTHER into your press an additional 1/8th to ¼ turn.

Note that you will feel the Ram/Shellholder contact the resizing Die before the stroke is completed. Completing the Ram Stroke will feel as though you are snapping the latch on a toolbox.

These directions apply only to standard Single Stage Presses. If your single stage press was not manufactured by Redding Reloading Equipment, please contact the manufacturer to see if using Cam-Over is appropriate for your particular Reloading Press.





These Redding Competition shell holders below allow you to adjust the amount of shoulder bump, "AND" still have the press cam over. Press cam over eliminates any slop from your press and the sizing operation and thus effecting shoulder bump.

What we are looking for below is adjusting the die for the correct amount of shoulder setback (shoulder bump) for our rifles chamber and getting constant cartridge headspace readings. With the Competition shell holders we are adjusting the shell holder to fall somewhere between the red and green dotted lines below and still have the press cam over.

If you notice Redding doesn't use any "magic" feeler gauges to adjust shoulder setback/bump.

And the RCBS setup directions below tell us to reach cam over with our Rockchucker presses. :

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What Ed said... and you better believe him or he'll beat you up!!

It applies to EVERY RCBS single station I have ever used, from my first 'chuckeer and A-2 in the 1960's, to my most recent, last production 'Chucker-II (don't know about the widdle "Partner" press)...

... ALL CH Champions and "H" frames, and all Redding single stations... and my Hornady 50-BMG press.

Those are the only one I have experience with.

 

[LHSmith]

Funny that I have been getting consistent shoulder bump on my competition and hunting brass all these years without competition S/H's and cam-over.....and I size by bolt resistance method (sans the mainspring). Perhaps my Boss presses have no slop.

 

[Patch700]

Funny that I have been getting consistent shoulder bump on my competition and hunting brass all these years without competition S/H's and cam-over.....and I size by bolt resistance method (sans the mainspring). Perhaps my Boss presses have no slop.

Indeed lol... I have some dies kicking around here that are too small for certain chambers , you would need a shell holder with a deck height of no less than .140" to achieve this die touching shell holder scenario , yet I can size cases in that die and not have bump inconsistencies among 40 cases...

With respect to the ram having to be in contact with the shell holder in order to remove slop , I have to ask those that believe that theory this.

When you run a case up into your die and it is sizing the case do you have slop in your ram?? I say if you do you probably have the wrong die screwed in for that particular case lol.

 

[dkhunt14]

Respectfully

\
T

Before I would argued with someone
F. Guffey

They have pills for that. LOL Matt