How would a BR HG fare in a LR FC shooting format?

[arkcomatt]

The simple answer to the question is a BR rifle is just fine for shooting F-class. I have done it many times over the years. I don't bother cleaning it. Shoot the entire weekend then clean.

 

[johara1]

I don't get the idea you think BR. is all about shooting fast, It 's all about shooting in the same condition to shoot small groups in the middle. I would bet most Br. shooters will shoot about 20 shots between sighters and record rounds.... How well do you think F class would do without marked shots after a sighter period? or zero in on clay birds and move to the record target and adjust the scope for the yardage change? Military long range matches don't have sighters at long range, only NRA. ..... jim

 

[dskogman]

Both rifles can be built to the same accuracy potential. The only real difference I can see would be that shooter fatigue would be less on the bench than prone, and the HG could be really heavy and use a brake so shooting a 300 WSM would be much easier. The only reason a 300 WSM does not dominate F-Open is handling the recoil IMO. I believe the 300 WSM has a slight accuracy and ballistic advantage.

What Alex said. They both use the same barrels, actions, scopes, rests, ... The only major differences are stock/weight and muzzle brake. Cartridge/bullet selection is determined by the rules of which game you want to play. A 6mm can be deadly on a calm day in F-open but the conditions are normally not stable enough for a whole match. There are a few ranges where it can work on the right day though. There have also been a few 284/300’s I’ve seen that can match X counts with a 6mm but it’s few and far between. An average one though will out score a great 6mm most of the time. If the rules were changed to count an extra 1/2 pt for X’s or make the rings smaller it might change the game a little.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I was thinking that since so many are using E targets now, that you could break down every target into a 4 target group agg too. Just kidding don't send hate mail!

 

[Dgd6mm]

I know this is off base here but I just shot f class over the weekend with a 7 second delay. After your string of fire can you pull up a screenshot of all your fired rounds? We are using shot markers.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I know this is off base here but I just shot f class over the weekend with a 7 second delay. After your string of fire can you pull up a screenshot of all your fired rounds? We are using shot markers.

Yes. Go open your saved target. It's the little file folder icon in the top right. Then just select the saved target. It will display as though it's still active; you can edit different aspects of it (caliber most often), or just view various stats about each shot etc.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Thanks Mike, sorry about stepping on your thread.

Don Dunlap

 

[JEFFPPC]

Another comparing Apple's with Oranges thread. I originally thought when the Tackdriver info came out it was a great concept. But after seeing the rules and thinking about it.....it was just another short range match with short range rules. The results bore that out. There are so many significant differences between the two disciplines I think it's just egos trying to over come each other. Why are we not comfortable within our chosen discipline. Think let's race short dirt track cars against Indy cars and then have the winner race Baja type vehicles and decide what is best. Just an ego thing is my opinion. If you interested in how you match up with a different discipline go try it. Their rules vs your equipment and your abilities. I doubt that will work out.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Another comparing Apple's with Oranges thread. I originally thought when the Tackdriver info came out it was a great concept. But after seeing the rules and thinking about it.....it was just another short range match with short range rules. The results bore that out. There are so many significant differences between the two disciplines I think it's just egos trying to over come each other. Why are we not comfortable within our chosen discipline. Think let's race short dirt track cars against Indy cars and then have the winner race Baja type vehicles and decide what is best. Just an ego thing is my opinion. If you interested in how you match up with a different discipline go try it. Their rules vs your equipment and your abilities. I doubt that will work out.

Hah, what?

This thread has been informative (at least to me). The intent wasn't to create an us vs. them at all. I can assure you there is zero ego behind this post (and from what I see in 99% of the responses).

I don't even have a dog in this fight; I shoot F-T/R. I created the thread because while I'm familiar with competitive F-Open rifles, I just didn't know how they'd stack up mechanically against a LR BR HG.

My takeaway from this thread is that they're more similar than I'd previously assumed, and that equipment rules aside, you could probably run an LR F-Open rifle in LR HG and not embarrass yourself, and vice versa.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Mike, I most definitely agree with your last paragraph. Shooters win . Rules make a bigger difference in the disciplines.......except a ppc or 30br will not do well at 1000. Back to Apple's and Oranges.

 

[johara1]

Hah, what?

This thread has been informative (at least to me). The intent wasn't to create an us vs. them at all. I can assure you there is zero ego behind this post (and from what I see in 99% of the responses).

I don't even have a dog in this fight; I shoot F-T/R. I created the thread because while I'm familiar with competitive F-Open rifles, I just didn't know how they'd stack up mechanically against a LR BR HG.

My takeaway from this thread is that they're more similar than I'd previously assumed, and that equipment rules aside, you could probably run an LR F-Open rifle in LR HG and not embarrass yourself, and vice versa.

I don't embarrass myself using a 16 lb. light gun in heavy, so why would you with a 22 lb. gun? the only problem I see is upsetting the bags with a heavy caliber trying to beat the conditions with a large caliber doesn't always work, I saw 300's and 338's DQ and a lowly Dasher beat them...... The best tuned rifle and good wind reading skills are the winner...... jim

 

[INTJ]

Mike, I most definitely agree with your last paragraph. Shooters win . Rules make a bigger difference in the disciplines.......except a ppc or 30br will not do well at 1000. Back to Apple's and Oranges.

My understand is this discussion has been about LR BR vs F-Class, not short range BR. vs F-Class. I try to be specific and not just say "BR" because SR BR is a discipline like no other. However, LR BR and F-Class have a lot of similarities.

Based on a lot of responses, many shooters have little concept of either short or long range BR. A few more seem to understand F-Class, which makes sense given the greater popularity of F-Class. The only puzzling part is preferring to grovel on your belly vs sitting upright like a civilized person when shooting..........

 

[rardoin]

My understand is this discussion has been about LR BR vs F-Class, not short range BR. vs F-Class. I try to be specific and not just say "BR" because SR BR is a discipline like no other. However, LR BR and F-Class have a lot of similarities.

Based on a lot of responses, many shooters have little concept of either short or long range BR. A few more seem to understand F-Class, which makes sense given the greater popularity of F-Class. The only puzzling part is preferring to grovel on your belly vs sitting upright like a civilized person when shooting..........

No 'Grey Poupon' for this belly crawler.

 

[johara1]

My understand is this discussion has been about LR BR vs F-Class, not short range BR. vs F-Class. I try to be specific and not just say "BR" because SR BR is a discipline like no other. However, LR BR and F-Class have a lot of similarities.

Based on a lot of responses, many shooters have little concept of either short or long range BR. A few more seem to understand F-Class, which makes sense given the greater popularity of F-Class. The only puzzling part is preferring to grovel on your belly vs sitting upright like a civilized person when shooting..........

Age and physical condition comes into play what game you can play...... jim

 

[INTJ]

I don't embarrass myself using a 16 lb. light gun in heavy, so why would you with a 22 lb. gun? the only problem I see is upsetting the bags with a heavy caliber trying to beat the conditions with a large caliber doesn't always work, I saw 300's and 338's DQ and a lowly Dasher beat them...... The best tuned rifle and good wind reading skills are the winner...... jim

16-17 lb light guns routinely beat heavy guns in the heavy gun class, so a 22 lb gun ought to do fine as long as it is in a lesser recoiling cartridge. I agree that a 17lb 300 WSM light gun cannot run well against a true heavy gun (I recently tested that), but a 22 lb 284 ought to be okay--though still at a disadvantage to a 17 lb 6mm or a 30 lb 300 WSM.

But ultimately, like you said, regardless of cartridge or rifle, tuning, gun handling, and wind reading are what win the day in LR BR.

 

[INTJ]

No 'Grey Poupon' for this belly crawler.

What is Grey Poopon? Is that what you have to do after you get up off your belly?

 

[rardoin]

What is Grey Poopon? Is that what you have to do after you get up off your belly?

It's the best carbon cleaner since CLR! Try some.

 

[davidjoe]

Based on a lot of responses, many shooters have little concept of either short or long range BR. A few more seem to understand F-Class, which makes sense given the greater popularity of F-Class. The only puzzling part is preferring to grovel on your belly vs sitting upright like a civilized person when shooting..........

Belly benchrest (F-class) is so popular because the firing line can be as simple as bare grass or even dirt. A benchrest firing line is a really big deal to construct and then blocks line of sight behind it, so a single line dominates the range at least on flat land.

With e-targets, a dirt berm and the required distance makes for a high-power range. You don’t even need pits.

I think Fclass front rests, made to be implanted in uneven or rocky ground are heavier and more expensively made than what you often still see in benchrest. I have never seen a BR guy take a mallet to his rest.

While prone is stable, I do suspect that properly made benches are superior, by reason of the fact that Fclass rules only permit the use of benches in very limited cases. I do not believe any Fclass shooter could not soon come to score higher from a bench.

Benchrest shooters don’t seem to have gone as overboard with heavy scopes, rings, or even actions relative to Fclass, nor does their gear (some oiled stocks and blued steel for example) appear as adapted to be rained on. I’ve even seen just one scope ring being used.

Aluminum bodied actions might be feasible for heavy gun and required for a light gun, so, attractively “dual purpose” in BR, but in Open there is one weight limit and steel with a 1.45” body plus integrated rail helps make 10kg and supports heavier barrels directed at elevating effective BC in slow fire shooting. Naturally high recoil impulse rounds discourage accurate fast shots, and if BR guns don’t benefit from those rounds, parts selected for mainstream BR rifles may not be nominally designed for many tens of thousands of rounds at 65 grains of powder.

That there is any weight limit at all in a division named “Open” has always perplexed me.

 

[INTJ]

Belly benchrest (F-class) is so popular because the firing line can be as simple as bare grass or even dirt. A benchrest firing line is a really big deal to construct and then blocks line of sight behind it, so a single line dominates the range at least on flat land.

With e-targets, a dirt berm and the required distance makes for a high-power range. You don’t even need pits.

I think Fclass front rests, made to be implanted in uneven or rocky ground are heavier and more expensively made than what you often still see benchrest. I have never seen a BR guy take a mallet to his rest.

While prone is stable, I do suspect that properly made benches are superior, by reason of the fact that Fclass rules only permit the use of benches in very limited cases. I do not believe any Fclass shooter could not soon come to score higher with a bench.

Benchrest shooters don’t seem to have gone as overboard with heavy scopes, rings, or even actions relative to Fclass, nor does their gear (some oiled stocks and blued steel for example) appear as adapted to be rained on. I’ve even seen just one scope ring being used.

Aluminum bodied actions might be plausible for heavy gun and required for a light gun, so dual purpose in BR, but in Open there is one weight limit and steel with a 1.45” body helps make 10kg and supports heavier barrels directed at elevating effective slow fire down range BC. Naturally high recoil impulse rounds discourage accurate fast shots, and if BR guns don’t benefit from those rounds, parts selected for mainstream BR rifles may not be nominally designed for tens of thousands of rounds at 65 grains of powder.

That there is any weight limit at all in a division named “Open” has always perplexed me.

I guess and F-Class firing line would be less expensive, and that may allow more ranges to host F-Class. LR BR does need to mainstream the no pits option.

The BAT M is a large heavy action and common in LR BR. As is the Nightforce BR scope and NXS. These are usually 12-42x56. IIRC, quite as heavy in weight are the 60x Golden Eagles and 80x March scopes.

Also, there isn't a barrel on the planet that will maintain BR accuracy for tens of thousands of rounds. I doubt an F-Class barrel would last that long either. I count on 1200 rounds of reliable accuracy whether it's a 6 BRA or a 300 WSM. Anything over that is gravy.

 

[davidjoe]

I went to college near Williamsport, BR heaven, but back then it was about as interesting to me as the little league World Series.

I’d shoot it if nearer to one. I shoot .22 BR matches regularly and love them.