How to select iron sights for my new Tube Gun

[dmisisco]

Shooters;

I'm new to this forum so forgive me if this is not the proper place to post this question.

I'm building,or having built) a new tube gun in 6mmBR to be used in XTC competition. I've been shooting a service rifle with conventional iron sights for a couple of years now and have no experience with competition match sights that are typically mounted on tube guns and match AR's. How do I make a selection? What are some of the more important features in both rear and front sights that I should consider? These are not exactly items commonly found on the self of a local gun shop, so I need your expert advice.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

 

[spclark]

The top shelf items most use is a Warner rear sight,Phoenix, RPA, Centra are some other brands)

http://www.warner-tool.com/

...fitted with an appropriate adjustable aperture,Centra, Gehmann, Merit are some popular brands), along with an adjustable iris,same brands mostly) up front in either the 18mm, 22mm, or 30mm diameters.

Something to hold the front iris is helpful; VERY popular is this from Wayne Forshee:

http://www.stallingsmachine.com/

This is a new product just out:

http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=centragoliath

If you're limiting yourself to OTC you don't need extreme windage or elevation adjustments on your rear sight.,Warner offers two models; one has extended adjustments for long range, generally viewed as out past 600 yards.)

Other than that, various colored filters, polarizers, shade tubes, similar accessories are available but not functionally necessary.

 

[dmisisco]

Thanks! Those web sites look like useful places to begin looking.

So it is acceptable to mix and match manufacturer's products? It appears that some manufacturers specialize in one component or another and rely on the another to complete the system. Any pitfalls to be aware of?

 

[spclark]

Mixing brands is quite common. All the front apertures are pretty much standardized by diameter to fit the appropriate bore of a front sight carrier. For the rear, just check to make sure the thread size of the rear aperture you select fits the thread size of the rear sight you want.

There are more brands out there, some are harder to come by now than before; if you attend a local match or two & ask questions of the participants,NOT while they're shooting though, please!) 99.99% of them will be glad to help you learn about the sport and the hardware we use. The other .01% won't hear you....

Where do you live / shoot? Have you been shooting for some time, but with Service Rifle or optical sights?

 

[JERRYHM]

Scott Riles makes the best front sight in the world......

www.rilesmachine.com/

Jerry

 

[dmisisco]

Thanks. I have some time to research the subject before I have my rifle in hand, so I'll browse the net and ask around some more.

I live in Carmel,CA. My "home" range doesn't offer much in the way of high power shooting opportunities beyond 300 yds, and most of the guys there shoot service rifle. I shot my very first ever high power match about 2.5 years ago with an M1 Garand at a "real" range - Coalinga, CA. The range there runs out at or beyond 1000 yds and there is almost always a brisk if not heavy breeze. Unfortunately it is a bit of a drive for me and I haven't been back there since. I'm hoping to do so soon.

I have an M1A with iron sights and a JP CTR-02,AR-15 flat top) that I currently have detachable iron sights on. Both great guns, far more accurate that I can fire them. I wanted a bolt action rifle to round out my collection. I recently ordered one of Gary Eliseo's R5 tube gun kits.

 

[dmisisco]

Thanks Jerry. What is it about Scott Riles front sights that make them the best?

 

[dmisisco]

New question on the same topic: How do I know what adjustable iris range to choose? Is the range of iris settings,either front or rear) dependent on the range of distances the rifle will be shot at?

 

[spclark]

No, it's more a function of what your sight radius - the distance between the two apertures - is for your rifle.

Worth considering also is your preference for a,relatively) large area of white around the aiming black, or if you prefer a tighter ring. I'd suggest the middle range if you're new to the sport. That'll work for most folks, and should you find youeself wanting something different, you'll have the easiest time finding someone who'll buy your's off you.

The farther out the target, the smaller the aiming black will be! The longer your sight radius, the smaller the front aperture will appear at any given setting.

Adding a suitable diopter lens in front of the front aperture makes the aiming black appear larger to your eye, which can be helpful most of the time.

For offhand, most shooters tend to put their front aperture on a wider setting than for rapid-fire or prone. The idea being you can see the aiming black as it breaks into the ring, the better to "time" your shot.

The older your eyes, the more you need a 30mm sight, if only for the amount of light your eyes need to function without strain. Young'ins can get by with the 18mm just fine; 22mm can be of use & you'll see many out there but the past two or three years has seen the 30mm sights virtually take over the field.

Scott makes an excellent product. He's an active shooter, and stands behind his products. There are quite a few options out there, too many to try to list here. That's why I suggested you do some research among the shooters at matches in your area before you make a decision & actually commit $$ towards obtaining your own set of sights.

You can spend upwards of $1,200 easy on a good set of front & rear sights new! Spend some time talking sights with shooters you meet & you might find something used that could suit you well & save you some $$ at first.

 

[HPMike800]

Dave:
I have the same rifle. Most of the rear sights now days are pretty much the same in function.,PNW's were not mentioned) I always hear that Warner's are the best. Mine are all Warner's so I don't know about the others. Warner's can be REBUILT which is important to me as you will use them for as long as you shoot irons. There's a wait so order soon. Some rear sights come with a weaver/picatinny base which is nice as it keeps the rear sights low, which you want in a tube gun. If you get a rear sight with a Redfield attachment, BE SURE to get the TUBB base that Frank White makes over at CLE. The base is low and the width is correct for the Warner #1 mechanical center. I have never needed more wind then there is on a #1 even shooting 1,000yds with a 308. I've come close!

My recommendation: Warner #1, CLE Tubb base,no cant) and the basic Gehmann/Anschutz apertures.

For the front sight, you need tall ones. I use the 22mm's and I am fine with them. The 30's are crazy expensive and I don't seem to need them. I highly recommend the Riles Highboy front sight with 6 minutes adjustments. I prefer the Centra front Irises as the allow a shade to be screwed into them if you have low sun from the rear. Get the single bar type as the cross bar just obscures the number boards. I have never used the glass type, might be a problem in the rain or low light conditions. The 2mm to 4.5mm irises have always worked at any yardage and also when I use a front diopter for long range.

Just my opinion, hope this helps.
Mike

 

[JERRYHM]

Thanks Jerry. What is it about Scott Riles front sights that make them the best?


Dave,

I've owned RPA, Right Sight and a couple of other front sights and got rid of them and now only use Riles front sights.

Scott's front sights are the strongest. In Ottawa 2007 world championship my rifle fell on the asphalt road landing on the front sight. I did not worry as it landed on the strongest part of my riles there was NO change of zero!

The problem with the RPA is they could be bent easily, saw it happen more than once. When traveling the front needs to be removed and the ring that stayed on the barrel was just not good enough for me in repeatability in zeros. The Riles front bases remain on the barrel for traveling,no loss of zeros).

The problem I had with Right Sight was I had to use his bases there for I could not change between 18, 22 and 30mm front sights. I did get a Right Sight with a Riles side bar so it could be used on all of the Riles front bases.

Riles now makes a 30mm front sight,check the price compared
to others). I also use the Riles tall boys on my space guns.

Scott is a friend of mine, so am I biased -- Yes but only because I know their the best.

Jerry

 

[swehrman]

+1 on the Riles front sight. I have three of them on different rifles. I'd also add a vote for the Phoenix Precision rear sight. I have a few of those too and they're a great sight for the money.

-- Scott

 

[dmisisco]

Gentlemen;

Thank you all for your sage advice. This gives me plenty of data with which to work. Good dope. I get the impression that it's much wiser to go with the high-end equipment rather then skimp and buy the cheap stuff. Hard to swallow when one is on a budget but I do appreciate the logic.

I gots some thinkin' to do. Thanks again.

 

[AJ172SBCT]

Dave, just to make things more complicated for you , you may want to consider what David Tubb has to offer. I have never used his sights but they seem to be up there with the best.

Click Here

Jacques

 

[dmisisco]

Thanks Jacques. I've seen Dave Tubb's website. Muy expensive, but I'm sure it's worth the extra nickle.

 

[spclark]

"I get the impression that it's much wiser to go with the high-end equipment rather then skimp and buy the cheap stuff."

Getting caught up in the emotional enthusiasm of someone just discovering a sport like ours is easy; holding back from wasting money on ill-thought-out purchases is much tougher.

You'll always be ahead if you buy the best you can afford; with shooting hardware you generally get what you pay for IF you do your homework before opening your wallet.

Our economy is in shambles precisely because too many folks fell for the advertising & hype behind loan marketing. Making the same mistake when buying shooting hardware will hurt sooner than later.

 

[dmisisco]

Too true. I have to admit that my head is swimming. :crazy:

The product line is complex and its hard to figure out what one needs and what is overkill. I firmly believe in the old adage that you get what you pay for and am willing to pay a reasonable price to get quality equipment. I just wonder sometimes if an increase in price comes with a name - like Dave Tubb's products. I'm sure his stuff is well engineered and manufactured but is it worth the extra cost? I guess that's why I'm asking you guys.

Is anyone aware of an article reviewing any of these products?

 

[spclark]

"Is anyone aware of an article reviewing any of these products?"

The Bulletin companion to this forum is an excellent source of info on new products; use it's search capabilities to see if anything of interest to you has been posted.

For the OTC shooter there's another forum at:

http://www.nationalmatch.us

... you might want to look into signing up for.

This forum's an excellent place to come to ask questions but as it's "centered up" on the bench rest & varmint sides of sport shooting, posting a similar query over there puts it in front of a larger audience of dedicated OTC shooters.

 

[GermanS1]

Dave, the world of match rifle sights is small and there's no real "name premium" on anything. The Warner rear is the absolute gold standard for the simple reason that it works and has worked for many years. Most of the other sights out there are copies of the Warner to one degree or another with an emphasis on making it for less. I've run forums and been a member of forums for a long time, I can tell you that on the rare ocassions when a Warner goes up for sale it lasts minutes before being snapped up.

In terms of front sights, that has to be the most gadget-laden area of match rifles today. I have an article in the works about front sights, but I'll simply say this for now: buy quality and keep it simple. In that category, I would place the Riles and the Centra at the top of the list for ladder sights. However, don't forget the possibility of a lower cost yet useful system like Gary Eliseo's ladder base for a conventional sight body,like an Anschutz or RPA). You have a Tubegun, but others reading this with conventionally stocked rifles that don't need the real high front sights can also look at a barrel band, dovetail and Anschutz/RPA sight body as a useful system.

You'll be bombarded with suggestions to add filters, lenses, shades, diopters, polarizers, etc. to your sights. Remember that a lot of these add-ons create problems of their own. When looking at any "enhancement" keep in mind something that was taught to me long ago "Don't fix problems you don't have." That bit of advice goes a long way.

 

[dmisisco]

Thanks German, and everyone else.

I think I've been able to find US distributors for just about every item discussed in this thread with the exception of Centra front sights. Does anyone know of a reputable distributor so I can compare the price of a Centra front sight to other makes?