Help with Iron Sight set up.

[NickB1075]

I have just had my first dedicated Palma Rifle built and I am having a bit of trouble with my sights. I am running a Warner Rear with Gehemann 510, and a wright Site in the front with a 2.9-4.9 aperture and a .5 lens and a 30" barrel. With the front aperture closed all the way I am still seeing to much white. I have talked to a few other guys on the line and it appears that this problem is not that common. Many shooters are shooting the 4.0-6.0 aperture with room to spare in either direction of adjustment range.

I am very new to Match rifle sights, hence I don't know if something it wrong with me set up. I have a service rifle background. I was wondering if the addition of a small blooptube could fix this problem for me or possible a different lens or remove it all together.

If I try a tube how much would a 2.5" tube change my sight adjustments?

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Nick

 

[effendude]

I haven't shot match rifles in a while but a common mistake is to think the front aperature needs to be very small. Most of the time inexperienced shooters will have the front aperature turned down too small. I don't recall what David Tubb's recommends but I think it was that the white should be twice? the surface area of the black. Your eye will center the sight around the bull nicely.
Good Luck,
Scott

 

[watercam]

I agree with Scott.
You did not mention whether your's is a 30mm sight but I will assume it is. When I had a 30mm front sight I used a 5.0-7.0 iris with a .5 lens. I would start with two target black diameters across to start and try more and less from there. Shoot ten shot strings (an SR-1 target at 100 yds. will work) of three different iris settings and see what works for you. If you elect for a small iris aperture be aware that it is possible to turn it down far enough that you think you have a slim area of white all around when, in fact, you are inside the black and seeing out of focus 'fuzz' instead of white. It would be very difficult to center the bull like that. Changing to a .75 lens would make the target larger but, for me, very out of focus.
A Bloop tube would allow you to make the white area smaller and also allow you to close down the rear sight a bit for better depth of focus (being able to focus on the front sight with an acceptably focused target). Most folks I see on the line with one are using 6" lengths.
Good luck, have fun!

 

[jhord]

I can't really add too much more than what the others said, but I went thru the same thing when I put match sights on a flat top AR. I thought, "oh, this is going to be so easy, just adjust the aperture so there's a thin line of white around the black and I'll be able to hold center like nobody's business." Nope!! You need a lot of white, and then just stop thinking about it. Your brain will take care of centering up auto-magically!

 

[NickB1075]

Thanks for all the great information. I will do some more practicing/experimenting with my sights.

I do have a 30mm front.

I also have a bunch of sr1's so I will do some practicing with them and play with the aperture settings.

I feel like I have at least twice the black at my current settings.

Any more input on the lenses? I do have a hard time getting a sharp black. My sight picture with service rifle is cleaner without any lenses.

Nick

 

[Hombre0321]

Your last post left me with a question.Were is your Point Of Focus right at the moment of trigger break?

RS

 

[spclark]

How old are you Nick? Us older folks need as much light thru our sights as we can get so be reluctant to close either aperture down too far. I shoot similar sight radius with my Palma and match rifles, 30mm 2.9 - 4.9 up front + .5 diopter on a 6" HouleTube, Merit Target iris in the back on Warners.

I used to try to hold a thin ring of white too but recently experience & eye fatigue have motivated me to open the front more for more light & it helps. At the back I'm usually 2, maybe 3 clicks from fully closed, otherwise the black's too fuzzy for what I think works best. Too small a hole & there's not enough light for my eye to work with & it gets jiggy. Then there's the 'cobwebs' I sometimes see, caused by too small a hole.

Last Monday in a Palma match at Lodi my 1,000 yard stage was just as the targets were fully side-lit in full sun. Mirage was so bad I could barely center up on anything! Usually we're shooting that stage after the targets are back lit & a frame holds works great with the sun brite on the sandy impact area. I'm wondering if an additional .3 diopter will help at all under those conditions? In twelve years shooting Palma I've never shot a stage like that before....

 

[dblinden]

I am not trying to be insulting in anyway with my reply. Have you installed the sight properly? The 0.5 lens must be forward of the aperture, i.e. between target and aperture. If the entire sight body is reversed or if the lens is actually not installed, you can get the condition you describe. With a 30" barrel and the sight properly installed, you will have no white with the aperture turned as low as you have described on targets 600 yds and less. Will be different for 1000 yds, but 2.9 is still going to be way too small.

Dennis L

 

[NickB1075]

RS: My focus is on the front sight before the trigger breaks.

Dennis; No insult taken that is something I would have done. I am extremly green with match sites. I do have my sight set up the way that you stated in your post. My rear aperture is almost at the smallest setting. I forget off the top of my head what that was. When I adjust the rear aperture it does sharpen up the aiming black but not as sharp as I would think it should be. Like I said i feel i have a better picture with Iron service rifle sights and no lenses.

Your saying that at 1000 I should have a bigger setting then 2.9? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

I am 29 Years old. I am fortunate enough to still have good vision.

Nick

 

[dblinden]

Age is not a factor for this issue.

The target black on long range targets is 44" which will be proportionately less than targets for 600 yards and closer. Thus, a smaller front aperture is needed.

Another possibility is that you have a front sight that has a 0.25 diopter instead of 0.50. I would check for that also.

Dennis L