How to deal with a non-responsive gunsmith?

[M-61]

So in not naming the individual or company you're OK with letting fellow site members go blindly through the same mess

 

[coldboreshot]

After all this, here is MY summation... no one is willing to indicate the identity of this individual ( especially those here who have mentioned they do know who it is), so my conclusion is, I will not bother sending any PA gunsmith my work. So now, who is it hurting? The many awesome craftsman or the one who's business practice has everyone here questioning. AGAIN, if you are someone who knows this guy And is SO concerned about reputation and benefit of the doubt, not to mention " feelings ( oh my!)", then OFFER TO DO SOMETHING TO COREECT THIS!
JESUS!!!!!

 

[Sniper338]

Its been plenty long enough. Health issues, family issues, whatever it may be doesnt take 3 years. This is a complete case of a shitty business, just like the guy that does balance beams scales (you know the monthly "I sent my beam to him and he doesnt reply" threads...

No one is doing anyone any good by not calling out bad business. My smiths send me photos of the work and progress, and its all done by 2 months. If a smith can not have a decent turn around time they need to not accept business until the catch up enough. Anyone seen bad post about cigarcop or wheeler? Heck no you havent! They have things together.

Step 1. Make a post to this thread asking everyone if they personally know, or have heard from gunsmith lately (name him). And leave it at that. That simple post would have been more beneficial. Depending on results you may have been able to contact someone that knows him personally to help you. Or you may have found out the dudes dead. Or you may get no leads. If no leads, no correspondence, its time to make a trip and find out yourself. As a business owner you should know anyone thats not happy will show up at your door and expect it.

This is your own fault by letting it go on this long and not being proactive. We dont live in a time that a handshake is a contract anymore, its everyone for themself. Im thankful you can still find someone here and there trustworthy, but the majority of people arent and dont care about you.

If this guy is still working, which obviously hes not, he should have had business records kept and tracked progress. He should have been able to say theres 5 rifles in front of you, vs 5 to 6 months. Every smith out there knows how long it takes them to build 1 rifle if they have all the parts. These figures can be way more accurate than a bs guess.

You and eveyone else do no one a favor by not notifying of bad service and issues. Everyones quick to name a company or post on members feedback. All I and everyone else know now is to not send anything to any PA gunsmiths.

Maintaining a good business reputation is how you run a business, keep people happy. If you cant provide service and do that you deserve to fail, you are replacable with someone else that can do it. If you own a business and have a life event and do not have back up business plans to take care of whats in house, you deserve to fail, you deserve a bad reputation.

Business 101. If someone wants a hot dog, you better get them a hotdog, it dont take an hour to make a hotdog. You take an hour to make a hotdog, that customer isnt coming back for another hotdog by god.

I am LEO, you call the sheriffs dept, and request a deputy to call you. Tell them the situation, say I will be there on this day and this time, can you meet me at this address, as I do not want any problems. You bet your azz they will. Been there done it. Bring all your documentation too. Then if things go south you have a deputy on scene for a police report to file with your civil lawsuit. Small claims court. You dont need a lawyer.

Man up guy!

 

[D Coots]

Clap....Clap....Clap

Edit. After I confronted him in person, he would be named.

 

[JEFFPPC]

After all this, here is MY summation... no one is willing to indicate the identity of this individual ( especially those here who have mentioned they do know who it is), so my conclusion is, I will not bother sending any PA gunsmith my work. So now, who is it hurting? The many awesome craftsman or the one who's business practice has everyone here questioning. AGAIN, if you are someone who knows this guy And is SO concerned about reputation and benefit of the doubt, not to mention " feelings ( oh my!)", then OFFER TO DO SOMETHING TO COREECT THIS!
JESUS!!!!!

Here is the problem coldboreshot. If locals think they know who this person is and have no direct involvement they have no direct knowledge. Now it's heresay. The OP needs to step to the plate in this case, I agree. If he was not given an extended time frame initially, has been given no updates, has been ignored after multiple attempts to contact this Ssmith, I think he should let his fellow shooters know so they not to get into the same mess. But, he is the one who "really knows" so he should make others aware to avoid a similar fate. He needs to man up so to speak as only he knows the facts. If all the facts are as stated and the Smith suffers, it's due to his own negligence and lack of integrety.

 

[rrwildlife]

Its been plenty long enough. Health issues, family issues, whatever it may be doesnt take 3 years. This is a complete case of a shitty business, just like the guy that does balance beams scales (you know the monthly "I sent my beam to him and he doesnt reply" threads...

No one is doing anyone any good by not calling out bad business. My smiths send me photos of the work and progress, and its all done by 2 months. If a smith can not have a decent turn around time they need to not accept business until the catch up enough. Anyone seen bad post about cigarcop or wheeler? Heck no you havent! They have things together.

Step 1. Make a post to this thread asking everyone if they personally know, or have heard from gunsmith lately (name him). And leave it at that. That simple post would have been more beneficial. Depending on results you may have been able to contact someone that knows him personally to help you. Or you may have found out the dudes dead. Or you may get no leads. If no leads, no correspondence, its time to make a trip and find out yourself. As a business owner you should know anyone thats not happy will show up at your door and expect it.

This is your own fault by letting it go on this long and not being proactive. We dont live in a time that a handshake is a contract anymore, its everyone for themself. Im thankful you can still find someone here and there trustworthy, but the majority of people arent and dont care about you.

If this guy is still working, which obviously hes not, he should have had business records kept and tracked progress. He should have been able to say theres 5 rifles in front of you, vs 5 to 6 months. Every smith out there knows how long it takes them to build 1 rifle if they have all the parts. These figures can be way more accurate than a bs guess.

You and eveyone else do no one a favor by not notifying of bad service and issues. Everyones quick to name a company or post on members feedback. All I and everyone else know now is to not send anything to any PA gunsmiths.

Maintaining a good business reputation is how you run a business, keep people happy. If you cant provide service and do that you deserve to fail, you are replacable with someone else that can do it. If you own a business and have a life event and do not have back up business plans to take care of whats in house, you deserve to fail, you deserve a bad reputation.

Business 101. If someone wants a hot dog, you better get them a hotdog, it dont take an hour to make a hotdog. You take an hour to make a hotdog, that customer isnt coming back for another hotdog by god.

I am LEO, you call the sheriffs dept, and request a deputy to call you. Tell them the situation, say I will be there on this day and this time, can you meet me at this address, as I do not want any problems. You bet your azz they will. Been there done it. Bring all your documentation too. Then if things go south you have a deputy on scene for a police report to file with your civil lawsuit. Small claims court. You dont need a lawyer.

Man up guy!

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate you taking the time to give your advice.

Did I make a mistake by letting this go on so long, yes I think I did. I continued down the road in hopes that he would finish what he committed to. Now is the time for me to call it quits and get my stuff back, I understand that. Figuring out what that process is was were I was seeking advice. I believe I have received a lot of it from the members who took time to respond, you included.

Ryan

 

[coldboreshot]

Here is the problem coldboreshot. If locals think they know who this person is and have no direct involvement they have no direct knowledge. Now it's heresay. The OP needs to step to the plate in this case, I agree. If he was not given an extended time frame initially, has been given no updates, has been ignored after multiple attempts to contact this Ssmith, I think he should let his fellow shooters know so they not to get into the same mess. But, he is the one who "really knows" so he should make others aware to avoid a similar fate. He needs to man up so to speak as only he knows the facts. If all the facts are as stated and the Smith suffers, it's due to his own negligence and lack of integrety.

Disagree on the point of locals disinvolvement. I believe someone needs to look out for the fellow shooters who would get tangled up in the same mess. Do agree that the OP let this forum topic run WAY too long.

 

[coldboreshot]

One more thing, anyone of you out there who gave materials to a contractor who gave you a timeline to build your deck or whatever...after three years of no contact and no job completion, you would be all over social media slamming and ousting this company so save all your boo hoo, save his honor, bullshit. We all participate in the same hobby, sport, enthusiasm or what have you which is attempting to get picked apart by different external factions, we need to look out for each other. Its bad enough liberal idealists are trying to break down this industry, we don't need implosion from the inside either.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Coldboreshot, read the first sentence in your last post. There is a difference in being aware by circumstance and actually being involved in an issue. What if someone put out the wrong name? No, this is on the OP, he needs to man up since he started this or he should have kept quiet annd continue ro do what he has been doing. Nothing. I agree, the individual needs to be exposed as at the least a poor businessman. But, by some one directly affected.

 

[Sniper338]

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate you taking the time to give your advice.

Did I make a mistake by letting this go on so long, yes I think I did. I continued down the road in hopes that he would finish what he committed to. Now is the time for me to call it quits and get my stuff back, I understand that. Figuring out what that process is was were I was seeking advice. I believe I have received a lot of it from the members who took time to respond, you included.

Ryan

Good luck man. I hope you get your stuff back. We all know these things arent cheap. Hard earned money is something we all dont want to loose like this.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Get you gear back BEFORE you mention any names!! Then, let everyone know what went down.

 

[ChrisA]

Shame on me for reading all 7 pages of this. Good gawd, go pick your stuff up and take it somewhere else.

Chris

 

[CNC-Dude]

I think the OP needs to do some quick investigative information seeking. Before embarking on a long road trip, determine if the smith is deceased, incapacitated due to illness, divorced and moved, bankrupt and moved or just dodging him because he turned into a bad guy. This can help determine how to take the first steps in recovering his goods. If he got divorced and moved or bankrupted and moved, each day that trail gets colder on tracking him down...
As has been mentioned already, Google is your friend. From any phone, laptop or desktop in just a few moments you can have the phone numbers to several of his closest neighbors. Call one and tell them you are a concerned client of his and ask if they would check on him. Or they might know the water cooler gossip to pass on to you. If you can determine he still lives their and isn't in the hospital or deceased, then send him a registered letter stating that if he hasn't returned your goods in one week to him receiving this letter, you will start criminal proceedings against him. If he doesn't, then start criminal proceedings......

 

[M-61]

This is a complete case of a shitty business, just like the guy that does balance beams scales (you know the monthly "I sent my beam to him and he doesnt reply" threads...

Same thing

 

[BeefyT11]

Here is the background.

I was looking for advice on a gunsmith back in 2018. One of the prominent members of this forum contacted me via pm and recommended his gunsmith. I contacted his gunsmith and went out to visit him in PA (I'm from IN). Based on that meeting and some research on his match shooting performance I decided to go ahead and have him build me two rifles. One was to be built on a new action and the second was to be built on a action I already owned. He was going to purchase a new action from Borden, build the stocks (from his blank supplier), thread and chamber the barrels, install a bix trigger on the new action, and fit everything together (action ordered on April 5, 2018). Down payment check for 1/2 the action and 1/2 the stock blanks arrives on April 9, 2018. I ship my 4 barrels to his shop and they arrive on April 10, 2018. June 19, 2018 stockmaker mangles his shoulder and they will be delayed. In the mean time he re-barrels another firearm for me and the workmanship is outstanding (turn around time was a little over a month). Stocks show up on July 17, 2018. New Action arrives on Aug 22, 2018. February 8, 2019 rifles are promised to be ready in time for the arrival of decent weather. May 19, 2019 rifle still don't done but suggestions are made to making progress and not compromising on quality. October 22, 2019 stock finishing problems start to develop and problems develop with a new lathe. Jan 23, 2020 text sent indicating good progress I inquire about having them ready to make the first match of the season on 4/4/20. He says they should be taken care of without a problem. May 8, 2020 He indicates he has two hard coats down on each of the stocks. May 15, 2020 and the stock hiccups are supposed to be behind us. October 8, 2020 stock are out for finishing and he's supposed to be working on the remaining metal work. Nov 17, 2020 Guy doing the final finishing gets hit by a motorcycle. April 1, 2021 supposed to be getting close.... Last communication was on April 3, 2021.

A project that was supposed to take 6-8 months has taken over 3 years and now I cannot get a response via text or phone. I have been more than accommodating and have not blown up his phone looking for updates (a call or text every couple of months). If I didn't know the quality of work is outstanding I would never let this go on so long. Since I haven't been able to get a response in over a month I'm trying to figure out what to do now.

Any advice?

My advice is this, delete this thread in its entirety save the posts you found most helpful to reference at a later time. Post a new thread stating has anyone hear from gunsmith "A" recently, anyone have a good phone number for the aforementioned gunsmith. If you don't receive any new information within a reasonable amount of time (1 week) proceed accordingly. If I lived closer to the area I would gladly stop in. Referring to another name mentioned (Scott Parker) that is a similar situation, that I am familiar with. Its the same rabbit hole however there are threads and threads regarding Mr. Parkers business practices. I own a tuned scale that I love and would love to send another, but the amount of information regarding his business practices have deterred me. The information in the archives of this site are a God send regarding the players in the game we play. I agree the people must be informed and swiftly but you need to take care of number 1 in the meantime. Get your stuff back dude but don't waste more of your time in the meantime if the guy is 6 feet under.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

One last thought.

Is it just you he is running from? Does he only refuse to answer calls from customers who have work he either can't fulfill or has already spent the money and has no ready cash to finish? Is he running his business with a Ponzi scheme?

Find someone on this forum who lives in a different location than you do and have them call him. If he answers, you will know he has deliberately given you the shaft. After that, outing him is the right thing to do. You aren't going to get any compensation from this whole incident as you live too far away to enter small claims court. If this is the case, ATF may be your only recourse no matter how despised they are. After all he must be licensed in order to do gunsmithing.

Again, the ball is in your court. You can either serve or concede the game.

 

[1mil]

Of course everyone knows...each time you contact your gunsmith to ask about a finish date he adds a month to the job.

 

[timeout]

I was sorta halfway interested in this thread to begin with. Honestly, now I'm a heckuva lot more concerned with where is Dusty Stevens. Come on back Dusty!

 

[Bc'z]

Of course everyone knows...each time you contact your gunsmith to ask about a finish date he adds a month to the job.

I know a gunsmith, that on the 3rd call to check on progress will box your stuff up and send it back to you.
Another smith I know has a sign on the door...
Each phone call adds $15 to your bill.

I was sorta halfway interested in this thread to begin with. Honestly, now I'm a heckuva lot more concerned with where is Dusty Stevens. Come on back Dusty!

Talked with Dusty just yesterday.

I hope the OP comes to a speedy resolution in all this. 3 years is entirely to long.

 

[CharlieNC]

A simple axiom when dealing with customers' expectations "under promise and over deliver". That applies to dealing with your employer and employees too. And if you find yourself in a bind, communicate and have a plan before they call you. Unless the smith is dead or otherwise unable to communicate he has no excuse to avoid immediately resolving the situation.