17 Months to ream a die and the Reamer was sent to Him.... Same Area
How to deal with a non-responsive gunsmith?
- Thread starter rrwildlife
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47WillysGuy
Gold $$ Contributor
Do unto others as you would have them do to you!
Lets change that to "it has been insinuated". Make anybody feel better??
Once it has been "insinuated", you're toast!! Look at folks in politics that are "up and coming", once it's "insinuated" by the other side, .... they're done.
The smith hasn’t been outted. I’m reading this thread more as a what would you do, as opposed to outting a smith. So hopefully there’s still time that this smith can protect his reputation.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Thinking (who ever he/she is) his/her reputation has already been tarnished.
The question is, would you send work to him after seeing this thread??
The question is, would you send work to him after seeing this thread??
mike mccormick
Silver $$ Contributor
If this is how he treats his customers, he obviously does not care about his reputation. He has made many excuses and probably outright lies, from the OP's original post. A man who cares about his reputation doesn't operate like that.
I will say this. Once I ordered some custom wood arrows from a very well known arrowsmith. supposed to be delivered in 2 weeks. Got a call from his daughter 3 months later. He had a massive heart attack and died. I told her to keep the money and sell the arrows on the internet, but she said, "That's not how Dad would have wanted it,'. So, if he was older, particularly in this Covid, and missing care because of Covid, he may have passed on.
BTW, I practiced medicine for 40 years, and if anyone waited more than 45 minutes, the care was free. All it takes is a little knowledge of queuing formulas with appropriate spaces for call-ins to have a no-wait office. The variable is "I think I have the flu" which turns out to be gallstones and you have to do a full H&P to admit. Most patients understood that, as they knew it could be them next time.
I'll admit those days may be gone with the computer list-checkers though.
BTW, I practiced medicine for 40 years, and if anyone waited more than 45 minutes, the care was free. All it takes is a little knowledge of queuing formulas with appropriate spaces for call-ins to have a no-wait office. The variable is "I think I have the flu" which turns out to be gallstones and you have to do a full H&P to admit. Most patients understood that, as they knew it could be them next time.
I'll admit those days may be gone with the computer list-checkers though.
I had a very similar situation with a gunsmith myself. OP, I hope you are still following this thread. There has certainly been a plethora of advice given. I understand your frustration, and you have been more than accommodating for this person. Like yourself I didn’t want to be pushy or demanding and my situation went on for over 2 years. First off, if this person is known in the shooting community. There death would have been mentioned in this very forum, and you would have seen it and not posted about the job. Secondly your time has value to, and this person has wasted some of it. Not a lot, but the tracking and phone calls plus you could have taken the work to someone else who needs it, which you still might need to. There is more of your time finding someone else.
This is what I did and it got my situation resolved. I texted them that “I will be at your business on this day at this time to pick up my rifle regardless of the status of the job”. I got an apology text back from the person but I didn’t back down on my original text about date and time. Got my rifle on the very day I stated to them and left feeling 10 pounds lighter. I don’t like being confrontational, if that’s what you would call what I did. But I was beginning to feel like a door mat, and no one deserves to be made to feel that way.
As far as the law, I would try to retrieve my belongings first before going that route. If you text message, that is a permanent record that is date and time stamped. You can use it later if things get to that level, but I don’t think it will. I have been following this thread closely because I was in your exact situation. Can be very frustrating. You have hung in longer than I did, by 4 months, lol. Go get your stuff, you’ll feel better I promise.
This is what I did and it got my situation resolved. I texted them that “I will be at your business on this day at this time to pick up my rifle regardless of the status of the job”. I got an apology text back from the person but I didn’t back down on my original text about date and time. Got my rifle on the very day I stated to them and left feeling 10 pounds lighter. I don’t like being confrontational, if that’s what you would call what I did. But I was beginning to feel like a door mat, and no one deserves to be made to feel that way.
As far as the law, I would try to retrieve my belongings first before going that route. If you text message, that is a permanent record that is date and time stamped. You can use it later if things get to that level, but I don’t think it will. I have been following this thread closely because I was in your exact situation. Can be very frustrating. You have hung in longer than I did, by 4 months, lol. Go get your stuff, you’ll feel better I promise.
I had a similar experience, 15 yrs back? Sent all components to a VERY well known builder and shooter in TX. After 9 months, it was clear I was WAY back on a long list. So, I asked him to sent me all of the components. He did and I found a very competent smith in PA ( from this forum) to build the rifle.
And a few more.
I'd say this gunsmith is
A) Overwhelmed w/ work due to a great reputation/proven
B) Aging and not so fast as he once was or not enjoying the work
C) Thinking his work is worth a many year wait- arrogance?
D) Health issues
E) $ Issues
F) Willing to see how long people will put up with poor service
G) the perspective of service and "customer" is lost after some years.
Maybe- have him send you the components back ASAP and move on.
Or fly out, get your components, ship em UPS to your home. Don't contact authorities, what is your justification?! Unless you have a signed contract with a stipulated finish date.
My sympathies, really.
Good luck & sorry to hear of this mess.
And a few more.
I'd say this gunsmith is
A) Overwhelmed w/ work due to a great reputation/proven
B) Aging and not so fast as he once was or not enjoying the work
C) Thinking his work is worth a many year wait- arrogance?
D) Health issues
E) $ Issues
F) Willing to see how long people will put up with poor service
G) the perspective of service and "customer" is lost after some years.
Maybe- have him send you the components back ASAP and move on.
Or fly out, get your components, ship em UPS to your home. Don't contact authorities, what is your justification?! Unless you have a signed contract with a stipulated finish date.
My sympathies, really.
Good luck & sorry to hear of this mess.
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I have been very careful to not publicly release the smiths name. Search this thread and see if you can find it. My question to the forum was for suggestions on how to handle this situation. How would you handle this situation?
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
My 2¢ First I would enlist the services of an attorney who is well versed in the UCC. Provide all dated copies of texts, letters, phone calls or any other correspondence.
If you don't want to go that route, I'd say you've done enough and been reasonable. I would enlist someone to go with you and who will back you up to get your property. Have all dated copies of texts, letters, phone calls or any other correspondence with you in case you need to enlist local law enforcement or legal help. Having said that, my guess is medical, marital or tax issues. Business assets (physical and contractual) can get tied up in divorce cases. Let's hope not but if federal back taxes owed, the IRS may have put a lock on his shop with your and other customers' property in it. Good Luck.
Far too many unbelievable stories to justify the ridiculous delays. They all sound like lies when you link them together. You have an incredible amount of tolerance and patience. Your easy going nature was taken advantage of by your gunsmith.
I waited 1.5yrs for a custom rifle that was promised in 6-9 months. Only after I repeatedly DEMANDED a return of my money did the smith finish the job and ship expeditiously.
Take the gloves off already!
I waited 1.5yrs for a custom rifle that was promised in 6-9 months. Only after I repeatedly DEMANDED a return of my money did the smith finish the job and ship expeditiously.
Take the gloves off already!
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
The question of the day!! A REAL GOOD question. Don't think I would have put myself in that position.
The smith that I work with, when needed, gets my stuff done in nothing flat.
No rush on my end, send him $$$ along with a note as to what I want done, and in nothing flat, it shows up at my house. Good man to deal with.
No names mentioned, kinda like as secret fishing hole.
I have passed his name along "only" for HIM to choose if he wants the work.
We are living in "The Information Age." It is ease to get information about a person anywhere in this country. All you have to do is Google them and their address. By doing this, you can obtain the names, address and telephone numbers of their neighbors, and many of their family. With this information, you can at least get information as to his status. He may indeed be dead or incapacitated.
You can also call the local law enforcement agency and explain that you have had contact with him in the past and for the last several months he is unreachable, asking them to do a wellness check. If he is in a rural or small town, they will usually be more than happy to do so. You are not asking them to do a criminal investigation.
In my mind, it is commendable that you have not outed him. He may be having any number of personal issues, that you don't know about. It really sounds to me that he is having mental health issues. He could have had a life changing event recently and is now in a deep depressive state.
The bottom line is, you must become proactive in this matter. You have now been offered advice from over 100 members. The ball is in your court.
You can also call the local law enforcement agency and explain that you have had contact with him in the past and for the last several months he is unreachable, asking them to do a wellness check. If he is in a rural or small town, they will usually be more than happy to do so. You are not asking them to do a criminal investigation.
In my mind, it is commendable that you have not outed him. He may be having any number of personal issues, that you don't know about. It really sounds to me that he is having mental health issues. He could have had a life changing event recently and is now in a deep depressive state.
The bottom line is, you must become proactive in this matter. You have now been offered advice from over 100 members. The ball is in your court.
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
I did it, don't matter good or bad, that what my wife says.
lawman29
Gold $$ Contributor
It is my opinion that it is a dis-service to other members of the forum and/or non-members viewing our forum to not identify a gunsmith with these issues. One of the purposes of this forum is to assist individuals with a variety of topics from reloading to recommendations (good or bad) on particular gunsmiths. I believe we all have an obligation to help protect each other...including someone right now who might be negotiating sending work to the un-named individual. Simply notifying the collective "us" about problems is not "outing" or bad behavior, but rather good citizenship.
Do you still have the texts?...did he initially give you a deadline that he would have your rifles done on...if so find out who his local magistrate is and file suit against him...Its odd that he won't talk to you...maybe even a notarized letter first
Sorry you are having issues first off. this cant been fun.
I have a small custom rifle shop myself. One of my top rules is to never take on work that i cant complete in under a month. under normal situations of course. I only build other peoples parts so this helps considerably . I very rarely source components. I like for my customers to know what they want and for them to have everything ready. Most times i complete my customers work in around two weeks. I have zero desire to ever be back logged like a lot of smiths are. I couldn't sleep at night with worry and concern. Some smith make this work and they are very successful, but i just couldn't. Hard enough remembering everything as it is when you talk to 10 different fellas every week and they all want something different. I also like to have somewhat of a personal relationship with each and every one of my customers. I like keeping track of them and how their rifles are shooting. I have made some pretty good friends this way as well. I keep my operation fairly simple and i have been very blessed . I have some really talented shooters doing well with my work and thats almost better than money for me.
I dont build rifles or chamber barrels because i have too. I have a nice farm and a day job so my smithing is pretty much my hobby. I do make a profit every year so my methods must be working well for me.
I really dont know what kind of advise i can give you other than you do whatever you feel is necessary and fair. I have a feeling i know who you are having issues with but thats really not important at this point I wish you the best!
Lee Gardner
I have a small custom rifle shop myself. One of my top rules is to never take on work that i cant complete in under a month. under normal situations of course. I only build other peoples parts so this helps considerably . I very rarely source components. I like for my customers to know what they want and for them to have everything ready. Most times i complete my customers work in around two weeks. I have zero desire to ever be back logged like a lot of smiths are. I couldn't sleep at night with worry and concern. Some smith make this work and they are very successful, but i just couldn't. Hard enough remembering everything as it is when you talk to 10 different fellas every week and they all want something different. I also like to have somewhat of a personal relationship with each and every one of my customers. I like keeping track of them and how their rifles are shooting. I have made some pretty good friends this way as well. I keep my operation fairly simple and i have been very blessed . I have some really talented shooters doing well with my work and thats almost better than money for me.
I dont build rifles or chamber barrels because i have too. I have a nice farm and a day job so my smithing is pretty much my hobby. I do make a profit every year so my methods must be working well for me.
I really dont know what kind of advise i can give you other than you do whatever you feel is necessary and fair. I have a feeling i know who you are having issues with but thats really not important at this point I wish you the best!
Lee Gardner
Yea, it does get very annoying to see this kind of thing happening to members here with no one willing to mention a name. It could save another person or persons from the same type of grief.
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