How do ya'

[deadwooddick]

get consistent CBTO w/ 123 Scenar in 6.5 X 47L using NEW brass and the L.E. Wilson micro-seater ?

Hint: getting variation .002 to .007 difference. These are NOT compressed powder loads.

 

[DT]

get consistent CBTO w/ 123 Scenar in 6.5 X 47L using NEW brass and the L.E. Wilson micro-seater ?

Hint: getting variation .002 to .007 difference. These are NOT compressed powder loads.

Does the seating die have a VLD stem? If not tip of some bullets may be touching in tip of current stem.

 

[deadwooddick]

Tip is clear of the stem, seated bullet shows slight ring on tip, indicative that's the only point of contact w/ the stem).

 

[Webster]

Tip is clear of the stem, seated bullet shows slight ring on tip, indicative that's the only point of contact w/ the stem).

I had the same problem with a Wilson straight line seater. I think your getting contact on the edge and not the conical part? The seater cannot be shaped correct for every bullet. Don't know how precise is but I removed the seater from the die, put a bullet in an electric drill and put valve grinding compound from AutoZone on the bullet. Less than 30 seconds honing. The marks are barely noticable now,

 

[deadwooddick]

I had the same problem with a Wilson straight line seater. I think your getting contact on the edge and not the conical part? The seater cannot be shaped correct for every bullet. Don't know how precise is but I removed the seater from the die, put a bullet in an electric drill and put valve grinding compound from AutoZone on the bullet. Less than 30 seconds honing. The marks are barely noticable now,

Surely that procedure is valid if the intent is to REMOVE the "mark(s)" but such operation doesn't address the spread of CBTO dimensions (I think).

 

[Catfish]

your seating die hits your bullet at a point where the diameter is the same every time, the variation in length come from the fact that the points on the bullets are not exactly the same. The length of the bullet jump to where it contacts the riflings should be the same, or at least less that the difference in your over all case length.

 

[jlow]

get consistent CBTO w/ 123 Scenar in 6.5 X 47L using NEW brass and the L.E. Wilson micro-seater ?

Hint: getting variation .002 to .007 difference. These are NOT compressed powder loads.

One potential problem of seating bullets in NEW brass, especially if you are using Lapua brass is it comes with too much neck tension. New Lapua brass should always be opened up using a mandrel from proper and reasonable neck tension. Too much neck tension from the new un-adjusted Lapua brass could be your problem. Do you feel a lot of pressure when you are seating the bullets?

 

[Webster]

Surely that procedure is valid if the intent is to REMOVE the "mark(s)" but such operation doesn't address the spread of CBTO dimensions (I think).

What's the variation in bullet total lengths?

 

[mac86951]

What's the variation in bullet total lengths?

What's the variation in seating force?

 

[BoydAllen]

I would polish the stem so that the edge of the opening does not make contact with the bullet, so that you have curve on curve contact, and if you are dealing with new brass use an expanding die and mandrel no the necks to bring seating force into a more reasonable range. For work on seater stems, given that I do not have a lathe, I chuck them in my 3/8" corded Makita drill, spin them up to 1,000 rpm, and use a light touch with some fine wet and dry abrasive paper. By turning the work, and given that this drill's chuck seems to be pretty well centered, the results have been quite good.

 

[deadwooddick]

Many, many thanks for the replies…

your seating die hits your bullet at a point where the diameter is the same every time, the variation in length come from the fact that the points on the bullets are not exactly the same.The length of the bullet jump to where it contacts the rifling should be the same, or at least less that the difference in your over all case length.

I'm not measuring COL (tip of bullet to ctg. base) rather measuring CBTO w/ a Sinclair nut and a Mitutoyo.

I would polish the stem so that the edge of the opening does not make contact with the bullet, so that you have curve on curve contact, and if you are dealing with new brass use an expanding die and mandrel no the necks to bring seating force into a more reasonable range. For work on seater stems, given that I do not have a lathe, I chuck them in my 3/8" corded Makita drill, spin them up to 1,000 rpm, and use a light touch with some fine wet and dry abrasive paper. By turning the work, and given that this drill's chuck seems to be pretty well centered, the results have been quite good.

Stem fit images…

One potential problem of seating bullets in NEW brass, especially if you are using Lapua brass is it comes with too much neck tension. New Lapua brass should always be opened up using a mandrel from proper and reasonable neck tension. Too much neck tension from the new un-adjusted Lapua brass could be your problem. Do you feel a lot of pressure when you are seating the bullets?

What's the variation in seating force?

I run a Sinclair mandrel (http://www.brownells.com/reloading/...ir-generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx) into the necks of new brass per longstanding suggestions posted here.

Seating pressure in NEW brass not "significantly" higher than in fired/re-sized brass (Redding bushing die) and little variation in seating force (using Jones arbor press w/ Wilson seater).

I had the same problem with a Wilson straight line seater. I think your getting contact on the edge and not the conical part? The seater cannot be shaped correct for every bullet. Don't know how precise is but I removed the seater from the die, put a bullet in an electric drill and put valve grinding compound from AutoZone on the bullet. Less than 30 seconds honing. The marks are barely noticable now,

I am getting this…

Not at all sure on how-to match the seating stem bore w/ the 123 Scenar ogive profile as a means to prevent the "rings" altho Webster's post is revealing on the how-to. Is there a valid concern in "violating Wilson's warning" about not removing seating stem as doing so causes wear of the parts (stem and cap)?

 

[shoot4fun]

In my experience the ring is a tell-tale sign that the bullets do not fit the seating stem.
My other suggestion you already covered. Virgin Lapua brass needs that neck really pushed out fr the first reloading.
Just out of curiosity what die are you using?

 

[BoydAllen]

The instruction from Wilson is not directed at disassembly but at fellows who remove the stem and cap to drop bullets through the top of the die during reloading. Over time, given how soft the die body steel is, the bore that the stem rides in can become belled.

 

[gotcha]

Surely that procedure is valid if the intent is to REMOVE the "mark(s)" but such operation doesn't address the spread of CBTO dimensions (I think).

My experience with the Sinclair nut as a consistent measuring tool has been less than stellar....... 1st the nut must be precisely machined to provide an EXACT right angle reading. when I had difficulty getting consistent measurements I tested the flats with a dial indicator and found them to be out of square. The entry holes in the nut had a light chamfer which caused the bullet to be out of square (stick) in the hole and through the lower jaw of my Calipers I could see daylight where the case head didn't meet the lower jaw squarely. Try measuring your seating depth (CBTO) with a different type of tool and see if it makes a difference.............. It did for me.

 

[gotcha]

get consistent CBTO w/ 123 Scenar in 6.5 X 47L using NEW brass and the L.E. Wilson micro-seater ?

Hint: getting variation .002 to .007 difference. These are NOT compressed powder loads.

Hi deadwood ! , First, I hope I'm not making a pest of myself I load the 123 Scenars in 6.5X47 also. I just checked several rounds and found the very lightest sign of a ring at approx. the same position on the bullet as yours using a Forster micro-seater. When looking at your pics it appears the bullet on the left has what looks more like a scuff rather than a narrow ring like the bullet on the right. .......... To me this indicates that more seating pressure was needed to seat the bullet on the left assuming you are using a smooth, even stroke on both bullets. (also assuming the pic is a accurate representation) .............. I don't know if you answered the question about opening the necks on NEW brass with a Mandrel ? Could this be a part of the seating depth variation equation? It's very possible. ................. Next, I first used the Sinclair nut years ago when shooting 7mm BR in IHMSA competition. Maybe I'm just fumble fingered but could never get consistent measures or re-measures with that tool. Too many tiny adjustments of nut & cartridge to get the damned thing square in the jaws of the caliper. ........... I'd take several readings until I came up with the shortest possible reading for a particular cartridge. Come back several minutes later measure again and never able to get close to the original reading or, come up with a reading several thou shorter than the original reading. VERY frustrating ................ Try a friends Hornady LNL gauge and compare results. ........... Regarding the width of the rings: dollars to donuts the bullet with the wider ring is seated longer than the one with the smaller ring. Hope this helps, Dale

 

[deadwooddick]

THANK YOU, Dale.

… Next, I first used the Sinclair nut years ago when shooting 7mm BR in IHMSA competition. Maybe I'm just fumble fingered but could never get consistent measures or re-measures with that tool.

IHMSA is where I started my search for more accurate 7BR loads as well.

…Try a friends Hornady LNL gauge and compare results.…

Sadly, the LNL Comparator (Hornady Item #B234) (http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-.224-.308-Comparator-Set-With-6-Bullet-Inserts) does NOT come w/ an insert for .264/6.5mm.

Query to Hornady has been sent out.

 

[spclark]

Sadly, the LNL Comparator (Hornady Item #B234) (http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-.224-.308-Comparator-Set-With-6-Bullet-Inserts) does NOT come w/ an insert for .264/6.5mm.

If you're brave - and have a steady hand - you can use an inside neck deburring tool to open up the .25 comparator bushing for .264.

 

[shoot4fun]

Sadly, the LNL Comparator (Hornady Item #B234) (http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-.224-.308-Comparator-Set-With-6-Bullet-Inserts) does NOT come w/ an insert for .264/6.5mm.

Query to Hornady has been sent out.

Use the comparator marked .375/C for 6.5x47 for headspace.
I've never seen a Hornady Bullet Comparator Kit without a 264 insert.

 

[deadwooddick]

Use the comparator marked .375/C for 6.5x47

Hdy suggested B234, but I see (from .pdf Instruction sheet) there's a Complete Set (B14) includes 14 inserts: .172, .204, .224 (5.56mm), .243 (6mm), .257, .264 (6.5mm), .277, .284 (7mm), .308 (7.62mm/8mm), .338, .358, .375, .416, .458.

Wonder why Tim (Hdy C/S) suggested B234 set ?

 

[shoot4fun]

Ummm… inserts (from Hdy page)
2-22 | .224" bullets
3-24 | .244" bullets
4-25 | .257" bullets
6-27 | .277" bullets
7-28 | .284" bullets
8-30 | .308" bullets

Where do you see .375/C ?

TIA

Was thinking headspace (of which I apparently have too much of ).
Didn't know that Hornady sees the kit without 6.5/.264 insert.

EDIT: I see from their website they sell the kit with 6 or 14 inserts.