how accurate is your savage really?
- Thread starter chevytruck_83
- Start date
"Condescension is not in much demand" Ain't that a kick in the head!
in response to your hate for savage Dennis. all I can say is if you live near the 18080 zip in Pennsylvania I would gladly go shooting sometime. sure it is in an xlr industries stock but I doubt it increased the accuracy over the original accustock. I only replaced it for comfort.
Just thought I'd share this. I've been pretty happy with the various Savage rifles we have. The 10BA is pretty darn accurate IMO and that's compared to some custom rifles I know that people have. Not trying to get into a debate but just illustrate how well my 14 year old shoot with a stock 10BA.
Typically we do 5-10 round groups. I was having my son test some loads for me at 100 just to compare some brass. So this is only 3 round group, I did not even bother to measure. This is the video of him shooting and the result.
It's a box stock Savage BA, had a cheap $80 Tasco scope on in that day as I left my normal scope zeroed at 1,000 for the match the next weekend.
The loads were .308, Win brass, 175 SMK, 43.5 of Varget. He was shooting off a bipod and is 14 years old. One ragged hole is pretty good for 14 year old with a .308. With him shooting this gun, most days is .5 MOA or slightly better out to 400 yards.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkhB4C8FINA[/youtube]
Typically we do 5-10 round groups. I was having my son test some loads for me at 100 just to compare some brass. So this is only 3 round group, I did not even bother to measure. This is the video of him shooting and the result.
It's a box stock Savage BA, had a cheap $80 Tasco scope on in that day as I left my normal scope zeroed at 1,000 for the match the next weekend.
The loads were .308, Win brass, 175 SMK, 43.5 of Varget. He was shooting off a bipod and is 14 years old. One ragged hole is pretty good for 14 year old with a .308. With him shooting this gun, most days is .5 MOA or slightly better out to 400 yards.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkhB4C8FINA[/youtube]
DocEd said:
Doc, guess I feel about as stupid for not getting the "Condescension" comment as trying to accumulate any real specifics, target pics etc for factory Savage rifles that "consistently" shoot 1/2moa or less "all day long"! Don't like face to face arguing and especially find internet bickering useless and childish. Also tain't bothered with someone telling me to my face I am illiterate and/or anything else. Those doing it on the internet I just find chickenchit and really really immature and think they can bully or insult with a keyboard is, well, flattery to themselves. In other words, I guess I just tain't very smarter!
Been around a little too long to let the younger generations use of a keyboard make them feel dominant.lolPS-Doc, ya made it to SD yet this year?
As to chevytruck_83 I can assure you I do not "hate" Savage's. It is just that I don't find them comfortable, I don't care for how they feel, operate or I know moot but don't like how the entire assembly look. Well, some of the older 110 Deluxe were a decent looking piece. I just cannot believe all the internet hype because it is 100% opposite of my personal experience with those I have worked on!!!! Period. I would really enjoy setting down and shooting one of these great shooting rifles as I like shooting small groups too. It is just that I AM NOT going to buy a $500-$1K Savage to see if I get a good one like the internet guys or one like I have worked on for someone else. Not HATE, just NOT 100% gullible. Would take you up on your offer in a heart beat but disability income nowdays and being single mainly because of said disability doesn't afford travel barely the 200 miles 1 way to Rapid City every 6wks for infusions moreless to PA to shoot a rifle. lol
Ok, now I won't affend Boyd any longer with my illiteracy or comments! Gotta go, like Doc said, my head really hurts right now and I need ice, and maybe a Miller as I just finished mowing the front half of my yard!
Would be my 3rd MGD this year.lolRespectfully,
Dennis
Talking "accuracy" on a competition-oriented forum is certain to lead to bunnytrails. I have had/have several Savage Model 12 BVSS rifles, one of which Mickey Coleman converted to my first benchrest rifle. I agree that rebarreling a Savage with an after-market barrel negates discussing the accuracy of the factory rifle. But the rebarreled ones are a legitimate comparison of a low-price factory-based action vs. a full custom.
The data I have in re: my Model 12 BVSS in .223 Rem. is not conclusive but quite interesting. I started load development on Feb. 2005 and ended in Nov. 2007. During that period I also shot this gun with a .223 AI PacNor barrel for 1,799 rounds and now have the third 6 BR barrel on this same action, with 2,981, 2,872 and the newest with 140 rounds.
With the factory .223 barrel, I fired 1,186 rounds, most all doing load experimentation but also winning a couple of egg shoots and shooting some factory class benchrest. Using bullets from 40-gr. Vmax's to 69-gr. Sierra's and about every Hodgdon powder that will work in a .223 with either CCI 400 or CCI 450 primers. I keep an Excel spreadsheet for all my load data and the sheet for this .223 shows that the 1,186 rounds had an overall average group size of .587" for groups at 100 yards. There are 86 recorded groups in the lot as some of the rounds were fired in competition, sighting-in scopes, etc. The 86 groups have a large of 1.235" and a small of .085".
I've seen Savage factory barrels so rough they would pull threads off a cleaning patch but shoot 1/2 MOA. I've had several good Ruger M77's that would shoot well (I consider 1/2 MOA for pure stock factory rifle to be "good"), a Tikka M595 Master Sporter that's a consistent 1/2 MOA gun, but overall still think that the Savage is he most accurate box-stock factory rifle that's not a Cooper or Sako.
Attached is a screen shot of my spreadsheet showing the data I record. The two numbers are top right are a running total of number of rounds and average of all group sizes.
The first 6 BR barrel, a rechambered PPC take-off of unknown make from Mickey Coleman, fired 2,582 rounds with 210 recorded 3- or 5-shot groups, mostly doing load development with an average of .510". Mostly BIB and Euber bullets, but some Berger's. No factory bullets.
The second 6 BR, a Pac-Nor "prefit" has 2,981 rounds with 210 recorded groups with an average of .397".
The .223 AI, also is a Pac-Nor "prefit", has a total of 1,799 rounds; 111 groups at 100-yd. averaging .600" and 7 groups at 200-yd. averaging .759"; mostly factory bullets.
Not sure any of this info is an argument "settler" and is only offered to show nearly 10 years of many enjoyable days at the range loading and shooting and "trying things". Over the years I have learned a few things about shooting, have made improvements in equipment and abilities and have enjoyed it immensely. I don't give a hoot if anyone believes a Savage is accurate or not because that's one of those arguments where my experience shows that most of the lines have already been drawn. It it what it is, but it becomes what you make it.
Just for reference, I have a Jim Borden-built BAT SV 30 BR and a BAT SV 6 PPC. There are the most beautiful, quality rifles ever created and if someone owned them who knew how to shoot they would both be record holders. But they are the epitome of the craft of many talented people and it's nonsense to compare them to a factory anything.
The data I have in re: my Model 12 BVSS in .223 Rem. is not conclusive but quite interesting. I started load development on Feb. 2005 and ended in Nov. 2007. During that period I also shot this gun with a .223 AI PacNor barrel for 1,799 rounds and now have the third 6 BR barrel on this same action, with 2,981, 2,872 and the newest with 140 rounds.
With the factory .223 barrel, I fired 1,186 rounds, most all doing load experimentation but also winning a couple of egg shoots and shooting some factory class benchrest. Using bullets from 40-gr. Vmax's to 69-gr. Sierra's and about every Hodgdon powder that will work in a .223 with either CCI 400 or CCI 450 primers. I keep an Excel spreadsheet for all my load data and the sheet for this .223 shows that the 1,186 rounds had an overall average group size of .587" for groups at 100 yards. There are 86 recorded groups in the lot as some of the rounds were fired in competition, sighting-in scopes, etc. The 86 groups have a large of 1.235" and a small of .085".
I've seen Savage factory barrels so rough they would pull threads off a cleaning patch but shoot 1/2 MOA. I've had several good Ruger M77's that would shoot well (I consider 1/2 MOA for pure stock factory rifle to be "good"), a Tikka M595 Master Sporter that's a consistent 1/2 MOA gun, but overall still think that the Savage is he most accurate box-stock factory rifle that's not a Cooper or Sako.
Attached is a screen shot of my spreadsheet showing the data I record. The two numbers are top right are a running total of number of rounds and average of all group sizes.
The first 6 BR barrel, a rechambered PPC take-off of unknown make from Mickey Coleman, fired 2,582 rounds with 210 recorded 3- or 5-shot groups, mostly doing load development with an average of .510". Mostly BIB and Euber bullets, but some Berger's. No factory bullets.
The second 6 BR, a Pac-Nor "prefit" has 2,981 rounds with 210 recorded groups with an average of .397".
The .223 AI, also is a Pac-Nor "prefit", has a total of 1,799 rounds; 111 groups at 100-yd. averaging .600" and 7 groups at 200-yd. averaging .759"; mostly factory bullets.
Not sure any of this info is an argument "settler" and is only offered to show nearly 10 years of many enjoyable days at the range loading and shooting and "trying things". Over the years I have learned a few things about shooting, have made improvements in equipment and abilities and have enjoyed it immensely. I don't give a hoot if anyone believes a Savage is accurate or not because that's one of those arguments where my experience shows that most of the lines have already been drawn. It it what it is, but it becomes what you make it.
Just for reference, I have a Jim Borden-built BAT SV 30 BR and a BAT SV 6 PPC. There are the most beautiful, quality rifles ever created and if someone owned them who knew how to shoot they would both be record holders. But they are the epitome of the craft of many talented people and it's nonsense to compare them to a factory anything.
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EMLLYN
Gold $$ Contributor
SDWhirlwind said:A few things that go through my lil mind when I read some things on the net? I know I am a bit green but with 80K+ rds of reloads since '76 I am quite aware of my lack of skills, both shooting factory and custom barreled rifles and reloading. With that being said.......
If you say you shot a -.250 group is it then a 'consistent' sub .250" rig or.....?????? I never read where the poster follows up with average or worst of prior and subsequent groups?? For example I finished building a new 6XC a few wks back with a Stiller Predator and Krieger 8 twist. Only 25ish rds down range so far with break in and load work. Last 3 shots Sunday measure .290ish outside to outside. Guess I can claim it a sub .050ish rig? Or Not?
I have still not quite figured out what "it will shoot lights out" means???? Anyone care to explain in laymans terms? Nobody here in western SD has been able to share any light on what it means!
Also if you 'claim' "all day long" is that another 10 rds? 100rds? 200? 300? 1000? Depending on the day sometimes 15 minutes is enough and sometime in the ole days on a good dog town it was 400+rds but I surely NEVER EVER shot 100%, or even 80% "all day long"! Explanation please?
In all the thousands of groups I have shot with new factory rifles, used factory rifles, Winchester(12?), Remington(70-90), Sako(10ish), Ruger(15?), Steyr(1), Weatherby(4), S&W, Mossberg and Howa 1500's(at least 30), Savage(8-9?-but I have owned none) and at least 25 new custom barrels and perhaps 15 used and the thousands upon thousands of primers I have poped I can still say in all honesty I haven't shot more than 20 sub .250" groups and surely NEVER 2 back to back. One would think I would get better but I am starting to believe I really and I mean REALLY SUCK at shooting!!!!!!
I know, I will be called names,.....ugly names, called a trouble maker and perhaps even a pot stirrer, even probably a senile ole worthless half blind never was or will be but I just cannot help but be amused when I read these threads. The best rigs money can buy never seem to perform as consistently as some of the cheapest production rigs made. Seems little reason for aftermarket?? I mean and many many of these claims from guys with virtually NO experience and shooting factory ammo????
Kinda like the velocity claim in another thread from a 22/250AI. I can't anywhere near match his claimed velocity with a bigger case and lighter bullet! And he gets 15 reloads from his brass and I don't think mine will make 6,.... SIX!!!!!! I will confess if I am not mentally challenged completely I am surely statistically challenged cause the numbers just don't seem remotely possible! I can see once, occasionally, sometimes, or????? ...........but.............
Help Please to clarify? Not looking for an argument or to start one of them bladder relieving contest, just explanations and clarifications I can understand!
Edit to ADD....If I called all of them out of the group holes "flyers" it would mean that Sierra, Hornady, Lapua, Berger, Nosler etc sure do make a lot of crappy inconsistent projectiles!!!! I mean ALOT
Respectfully,
Dennis
Thanks Dennis! ;D Best thing I've read all day!!
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
This morning the top three shooters at the Manatee Gong shoot used Savage.
I took third with a Savage dual-port action and Krieger barrel. Had to shoot-off for third against a Stiller-actioned tube rifle to keep Savage on top.
I took third with a Savage dual-port action and Krieger barrel. Had to shoot-off for third against a Stiller-actioned tube rifle to keep Savage on top.
What size gongs at what yardage?
Chuck Norris once used a Savage rifle to take a Cape Buffalo but still found it not as accurate as his karate chop
It was just a chip shot 575 yd at a 5'' gong I hit 14 out of 15 missed the last one from all the harassment I was getting. Savage never win they always do .
Good Shooting Larry
Good Shooting Larry
savagedasher said:
.....And such a rifle is good for????? Matches shot in tunnels? How about summer days with no wind when ya gots boiling mirage....they shoot through the boil with them factory hummer barrels? Hmmm? Sounds to me like what youse got there with those matches shot in dead calm conditions is a trigger pullin' contest.....those type of matches are great for wasting components and barrels.....ain't a lot to learn from them. Do you stay home from the matches when they forecast breezy conditions?
all I'm saying is the rifle is capable. even though I may not b. the rifle doesn't shoot any different because there's wind. we all know when it comes to wind it comes down to shooter and the calibers ballistic coefficient. what is it good for? learning to shoot in the wind, shooting for fun. its 223 which is very inexpensive to shoot and when you consider barrel life its even better. what else is there? teasing.
Once had a Savage 340 in .22 Hornet back in the 70's......amazingly accurate- shot .3's @ 100 with a 6x (all day long :) ....however it was not accurate enough to make up for it being butt-ugly and an action that was rough....very rough.
Recently had the displeasure of working up a load for a friends Savage Edge .223.....biggest P.O.S I have ever shot.....Daisy Red Ryders have a better trigger design.
I'll consider buying one when they start appearing in the top 20 of the FISS ......THERE they HAVE to shoot well "ALL DAY LONG"
) ....however it was not accurate enough to make up for it being butt-ugly and an action that was rough....very rough.Recently had the displeasure of working up a load for a friends Savage Edge .223.....biggest P.O.S I have ever shot.....Daisy Red Ryders have a better trigger design.
I'll consider buying one when they start appearing in the top 20 of the FISS ......THERE they HAVE to shoot well "ALL DAY LONG"
Mr. Smith I was talking about a stock savage with hand loads in no wind. Factory 223 yes it has had trigger modifications and bedded . Last week we had a shooter shoot 198 out of 200 in a IBS target at 575 yd that was done with a savage also. Small group was 1.2 something with a savage also. Today I hit 14 out of 15 5'' gongs at 575 yd .We never have any wind or mirage we had 30''of rain and the sun shining on it .If your so BAD just come to Florida for our 1000yd gong match and we will I promise show you wind and mirage.
Good Shooting Larry
Good Shooting Larry
savagedasher said:
Sorry, but I have difficulty following your post.......your rifle was a "quasi"-stock Savage...but were the other Savages that did well "stock"? Was this an actual sanctioned IBS match....or just shooting IBS targets?
How can you promise to show me wind and mirage when you claim to "never have any wind or mirage"? ....which is to my point......a rifle that only shoots well in dead calm is pretty well useless ....UNLESS you wait for dead calm conditions...... which in the competitive world will have you dropping points for failing to shoot all your record targets since it is a "TIMED" event.
Edit- Nevermind the reply....IBS LR matches are 600 and 1000 yds....so this must be some kind of club match. 575 yds is rather odd.
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