How much is my cheap Savage action limiting me—really?

[ebb]

Your belief that they are inferior and your 2 are worse than most, likely effects your shooting more than the Savage does.

 

[Hohn]

If you are tight on funds, screw on the good barrel, find the best trigger you can, do load development, and have at it. Truth is it's probably wind calls more than anything affecting your scores.

I was a big Savage fan right up until Remage barrels became easy to obtain.

As for sending an action to NSS...the one guy good at Savages...he's also a terrible businessman. Be prepared to write that action off. Given the easy to find horror stories I wouldn't send him anything.

To be clear, NSS and SSS are not the same, and NSS doesn't do action work and is a well run business, unlike SSS (sharpshooter supply).

 

[Hohn]

I'm currently running two Savage PTA 12's, both with the stock
triggers set to 10 ounces. Having shot these for several years
now, the triggers are a non issue for me. Both are wild cat's
of my own design. All barrels are 30 inch heavy varmints and
shouldered. My SA284 graced me with a 5/8" group at 500
yards and followed up with a 3/4" and one just under an inch
I took this load and rifle to 1000 yard Ridgway and made AAA
first time out with a 22 in pouring rain. Quite a few on here were
at the match. I will admit, to most, these are not a preferred action
for a top bench build, but when set with other good components,
they will hold their own if you do your part.

I'm not sure how the experience with PTAs translates to the actions I have. Different actions completely, much lighter trigger.

 

[Hohn]

There is nothing wrong with Savage 12 actions. The only shortcoming of the Savage 12 is the lack of an aftermarket trigger that will reliably work under 6 oz. the Sharpshooter Supply Evolution trigger fit the bill but it is no longer available. Personally I like the Savage target trigger that will go down to about 6 oz but many people don't care for it.
I don't know about the "cabellas" exclusive but I do know that Shillen Savage barrels are a bargain from Northland Shooter Supply and they shoot as good as most cut rifle barrels.
The other thing is that Tupperware stocks and cheap bipods just don't cut it for accuracy. Also the action must be properly bedded into the stock. GRS makes great stocks but to achieve top accuracy the action must be properly bedded to the stock. My buddies Savage 12 low profile varminter had real accuracy problems in the laminated stock until I bedded it for him. It's now a tack driver what a difference a good action to stock fit makes.
Normally Savage actions provide excellent ignition. The only time I ever had a Savage ignition problem was when I was first starting out and had the brilliant idea to use grease on the firing pin. Trust me that doesn't work especially in cold weather.
The action won't hold you back but as with any rifle load development (tuning) is where the accuracy is. Try the Cortina method to find a WIDE node that is forgiving, even if it is at a slower speed rather than push the velocity and end up with a finicky rifle that goes in and out of tune very quickly.

I've not found the Savage trigger limiting, honestly. I can pretty much break the shots I want to break. The regular trigger is adjusted (by me) to as light as I can go without having to deal with the annoying sear fall issue. It's just under 1.5#.

My accuracy testing is done with the GRS Bifrost stock exclusively. It's a composite (glass filled polymer) as opposed to laminate (wood) and supposedly requires no bedding. If you've not been exposed to one of these stocks, they are SOLID. Acoustically they are "dead" and have almost no resonance.

I supposed I'll consider bedding but this particular stock isn't supposed to need it and I find it unlikely that it would benefit nearly as much as a wood stock. The bedding area on this stock is actually 65% glass filled. It's rock-hard, probably harder than any epoxy I could add to it.

My firing pin has pretty good clearance, doesn't seem to need bushing and doesn't crater primers.

 

[Hohn]

Your belief that they are inferior and your 2 are worse than most, likely effects your shooting more than the Savage does.

I'd need that translated into actual physics to give that any weight.

 

[Hohn]

I also have 3 Savage's, 2, model 12 and 1, model 110 that I set up for 600 and 1000 yd shooting.

My first was a used 6.5 CM and started the long range rabbit hole with that 4 years ago.

My first model 12 was bone stock and with my reloading and testing I was able to get 6" groups at 600 yds. After I shot out the barrel I put a Wilson barrel on it. My shooting still was getting better. Then I went full bore, Boyd's AT-one stock, timiney trigger, bedded and pillerd the action.
I'm on my 3rd barrel now (Brux) and it shoots 6.9" groups at 1000 yds.
Then I decided to get a second gun. Again bought a old used Savage 110 in .308. Rebarreld to 6mm CM and changed out the stock, trigger and beaded the action. I'm on my 2nd barrel with it.

Since my modifications moved my gun into Light Gun specs I bought another Used Model 12, 6.5 CM and I am keeping it stock so I can shoot factory gun on 600.

For what I have invested in my guns I can still shoot with the big boys that have $5 - $10K in their guns.

Don't count the Savage actions out. Yes some are sloppy and some have firing pin issues and need have the bolt head bushed, but you didn't spend $1k for the action and more for a barrel.

If your just getting into long range shoot the gun and test you reloads to find the node and Jump for what it likes. You will know when it needs some adjustment as I have found that mine like to shoot dirty (300-400 rounds between cleaning). Checking the chamber for errosion around each 200 rounds will keep you bullet jump where it likes to be.

Savages are so easy to change out the barrel (about 30 mins) and barrels are not going to send you to the bank for a second loan on your home.

pics are 1st model 12 and then progression to my second gun in 6mm CM

Thanks for this.

In my mind, the action should matter little to none in terms of pure mechanical accuracy potential. But I was starting to doubt. And once you head down the path of thinking it does explain some things, you go crazy trying to figure out what exactly it could be.

I think I just need to do the woodshed work of legit load development in a proper match grade barrel and then see what happens.

I've confirmed that the Bighorn/Zermatt tenon length is compatible with my Savage (not just the thread specs, but length of thread) so I'm going to charge ahead with a good barrel on my sketchy action and just see how it does.

 

[drop_point]

I'd need that translated into actual physics to give that any weight.

He's talking about the mental game. Confidence is important.

 

[drop_point]

Thanks for this.

In my mind, the action should matter little to none in terms of pure mechanical accuracy potential. But I was starting to doubt. And once you head down the path of thinking it does explain some things, you go crazy trying to figure out what exactly it could be.

I think I just need to do the woodshed work of legit load development in a proper match grade barrel and then see what happens.

I've confirmed that the Bighorn/Zermatt tenon length is compatible with my Savage (not just the thread specs, but length of thread) so I'm going to charge ahead with a good barrel on my sketchy action and just see how it does.

The action most certainly DOES matter. If you wait long enough, somebody will explain it in more detail than I have the ability to.

 

[Fuj]

I'm not sure how the experience with PTAs translates to the actions I have. Different actions completely, much lighter trigger.

You are correct in a sense. It's still a model 12 savage though. I paid
$550 each for two actions for my builds. I prefer modifying aluminum
chassis stocks. I can buy a Borden, Bat or Panda if I wanted, and it's
not about the money, It's about how far I can take it and enjoy myself
while competing.

 

[ASbobcat]

To be clear, NSS and SSS are not the same, and NSS doesn't do action work and is a well run business, unlike SSS (sharpshooter supply).

My personal experience with NSS was exactly the opposite of yours. Never again.

 

[Hohn]

My personal experience with NSS was exactly the opposite of yours. Never again.

Thanks for sharing your experience and confirming it was NSS.

 

[ASbobcat]

You are correct in a sense. It's still a model 12 savage though. I paid
$550 each for two actions for my builds. I prefer modifying aluminum
chassis stocks. I can buy a Borden, Bat or Panda if I wanted, and it's
not about the money, It's about how far I can take it and enjoy myself
while competing.

I have been shooting with PTA's for a long time and love them, but they can benefit from some minor modification done easily and cheaply at home.
If you take a look at the action, the back faces are beautifully machined, but the front face is crude. I have found the action faces can be out of square by up to .010in. If you measure from the back faces to front with calipers, and file off small increments from the face, you can square the face in less than an hour to within .001. The recoil lugs are also rarely square, often lopsided by as much as .003in. You can buy good lugs from PT&P, or save some money with a file.
The bolt lug bearing surfaces appear to be machined well, and combined with the floating bolt head, modification of the bolt is usually not necessary.
A wheeler action wrench and vice are the best investments you can make. and one DIY squaring job will more than pay for them.

 

[M-61]

My personal experience with NSS was exactly the opposite of yours. Never again.

Can you please state what/who you mean with NSS
I’m confused. I know who SSS is but…

 

[Mark W]

Can you please state what/who you mean with NSS
I’m confused. I know who SSS is but…

NSS is Northland Shooter Supply. I’ve done a lot of business and they have always been exceptional. @ASbobcat might have just made the first negative comment that I’ve heard about NSS if that’s truly who he means.

 

[ASbobcat]

Can you please state what/who you mean with NSS
I’m confused. I know who SSS is but…

I bought a "take off" barrel that turned out to be completely trashed and shot out. Customer "service" was a very negative experience.

 

[M-61]

NSS is Northland Shooter Supply. I’ve done a lot of business and they have always been exceptional. @ASbobcat might have just made the first negative comment that I’ve heard about NSS if that’s truly who he means.

Thanks
I fully agree and if I remember correctly I dealt with a man named Jim (?)
Bought barrels and actions from him over the years and it couldn’t have gone better.
I have never read a negative comment about NSS until today

 

[jobhopper66]

If I am not mistaken is someone new running NSS? I thought I read that on here awhile back and there did seem to be a decline in service if I remember correctly. I myself have only done business there once about 6 years ago and it was a good experience. I agree with member M-61, I think Jim was the man's name I dealt with at the time.

 

[MGYSGT]

Let's not be like movie stars who tell a guy with two kids, car payment and house payment, to JUST buy a $70,000 electric car if the gas prices are too high.

 

[Dgd6mm]

He's talking about the mental game. Confidence is important.

I agree, your mentally challenged right from the beginning. I've built at least 4 shooters off your model. 1/2" 5 shot groups are possible. I believe you need to revisit your load, practice, and definitely up your wind reading skills. Savage's are what I shoot in FTR, 300, 600, and 1000. My 1000 yard rifle is a .308, my mid range is a .223 with 80 ELD's. HM scores are definitely possible at mid range with this combination, if you have confidence in your equipment.

 

[bsekf]

I have 5 Savage LA's/ 10 + barrels, all but one have aftermarket triggers. That is the weak spot. Had they been available when I started, I would have gotten Tikka's, their tolerances are close enough that you can screw a new barrel on and not worry about the headspace.