hot rod 22 cartridge?

[DennisPA]

Interesting read thru this thread. I recently finished a bench rest rifle for my wife in 220 Swift. It's a 30 inch 7 twist throated for 90g bergers. We really only had time to do a course load development to catch the last match of the year but its showing promise. Best group so far is .213 for 4 shots @ 100 yards. It's only running 2850 fps so I'm hoping there is another node in the barrel higher up, my goal was 3100.The match we shoot is steel between 850 and 1000 yards. Its funny people either think it's cool to see someone trying something different or they think you’re a nut!

 

[Quinc]

22-243 and 22-284 will both do what you want, with slow powders and long barrels. I'm not sure how fast you can push those bullets, through a twist tight enough to stabilize them, before you start to have problems with bullet blowup. Rapid throat erosion may make that problem worse. Careful research could pay dividends with something like this. Might not be a bad idea to call Hornady to see what you can find out about velocity/twist limits for their bullets.

22-284! Hell yeah! What kind of velocities would you get with that and 80gr bergers?

 

[Ackman]

A 22-250AI is about the equivalent of a standard Swift, you still have to fireform the brass and more time is spent just fireforming and in my mind the brass needs to be shot twice, FL sized, plus annealed before you realize the benefit of a 22-250-AI which is almost a Swift, so one could rule that out.

Nonsense.
The AI is at 4200 to 4200+ with 50's is a bit more than equivalent.

Always funny when ex-purts talk about "time spent fireforming" It's not "fireforming," it's working up a load and shooting it in the field......50's at 4000-4100. And out comes a perfect case. If it takes two firings you're not doing it right. Also it's a case with little taper and no stretching. Annealing isn't required.

Is 55gr accuracy load with a Swift at over 4000?

 

[40X Guy]

Interesting read thru this thread. I recently finished a bench rest rifle for my wife in 220 Swift. It's a 30 inch 7 twist throated for 90g bergers. We really only had time to do a course load development to catch the last match of the year but its showing promise. Best group so far is .213 for 4 shots @ 100 yards. It's only running 2850 fps so I'm hoping there is another node in the barrel higher up, my goal was 3100.The match we shoot is steel between 850 and 1000 yards. Its funny people either think it's cool to see someone trying something different or they think you’re a nut!

Dennis, curious what powder you are running with the 90 grainers in your 7 twist Swift? I have an 8 twist custom Swift and can get 75 A-Max going at over 3600 fps. I would think 3300-3400 should be easily achieved in a 30 inch tube. N550 or slower powders are the ticket for fast twist Swifts. But barrel heat is inherent...

Frank

 

[40X Guy]

Hi Ackman, I'm no ex-purt but I have been playing with hyper .22 cals for a long time, I have had about all of them including an 8 twist 22-.284 20 years ago built by Neil Jones and still come back to the .220 Swift with no improvements to the case. Have had a lot of fun playing with the hot rod 22's. My current 55 grain accuracy load for my 13 twist Swift is a sedate accurate 4100 fps. I push em hard and will not disclose any load recipes for this rifle. Why have a Swift or any of the Hyper 22's if you don't kick in the 4 barrel

I anneal all my calibers after each firing and that includes my hunting rifles, varmint rifles and my 1000 yard rifles. It makes life easier and eliminates any head scratching on target as neck tension's are all equal and ES numbers come down. I can't get into fireforming or as you say working up a load any more to achieve the desired hyper effect of a .22 cal cartridge. And in my mind you need to fire cases meant to be an AI version 2 times to get the case totally blown out. Life is too short. I just grab a new piece of Norma .220 Swift brass and get desired effect right out of the gate. Life is good and the woodchuck hunting is very good! To each their own...

Frank

 

[JohnMill]

Chttp://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=3156alib,
Have not seen anything here that matches (on paper) a 224 Clark. I watched a friend go through all the gyrations required to put one together and tune it to win a bet with a rancher in WY. One shot at a crow at 850yds He used 80 and 90 JLKs as I recall and did win the bet. Best data I could find is:
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=3156

John

 

[40X Guy]

Chttp://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=3156alib,
Have not seen anything here that matches (on paper) a 224 Clark. I watched a friend go through all the gyrations required to put one together and tune it to win a bet with a rancher in WY. One shot at a crow at 850yds He used 80 and 90 JLKs as I recall and did win the bet. Best data I could find is:
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=3156

John

Now that's humming an 80 grainer! One cartridge thats not talked about much. Very cool. Close variants of the .224 Clark would be a 22-6MMAI, 22-6MM, or the .224 TTH.

Frank

 

[JohnMill]

My first thought when Jerry brought up the 224 Clark was why not a 22-257 Roberts,not because I had done any real study of it but because I was enamored with all things 257 Roberts. That was in my first 2 years of BR. I have come to believe that VLD bullets acheive best accuracy at 3050fps (or a little less but not much more) and that anything over will deplete the potential.
That may stir the fire a bit but......

John

 

[Quinc]

So has anyone done a 22-338 lapua?

 

[JohnMill]

Have not heard of that one but P.O. Ackley's books had some horrendous cartridges by some of the custom gunsmiths
John

 

[DennisPA]

40X this season my wife used 4831SC mainly because I was already using it in my 7mm WSM and the temp stability. Next season we may be trying some new recipes. We stopped at Bergers max load and that's where she got the best group. But after doing some more reading since her chamber was throated for the 90g Bergers she effectively has a larger chamber then SAMMI spec chamber. So we'll see how far we can go above the max charge.

 

[40X Guy]

Hi Dennis, if you can source some N550 or RL-17 you will be pleased... I can help you out thru Quickload also if needed.

Frank

 

[jghoghunter]

A 22-250AI is about the equivalent of a standard Swift, you still have to fireform the brass and more time is spent just fireforming and in my mind the brass needs to be shot twice, FL sized, plus annealed before you realize the benefit of a 22-250-AI which is almost a Swift, so one could rule that out.

Nonsense.
The AI is at 4200 to 4200+ with 50's is a bit more than equivalent.

Always funny when ex-purts talk about "time spent fireforming" It's not "fireforming," it's working up a load and shooting it in the field......50's at 4000-4100. And out comes a perfect case. If it takes two firings you're not doing it right. Also it's a case with little taper and no stretching. Annealing isn't required.

Is 55gr accuracy load with a Swift at over 4000?

After playing with these cartridges since the early 90's along with a 33 chronograph with a strain gauge attached. Keeping mind that 65k psi is max. If your getting 4200+ with a 22-250 AI you are way over max press. Its as simple as that you are laying your head next to a bomb.

 

[Ackman]

[quote author=jghoghunter

1) After playing with these cartridges since the early 90's along with a 33 chronograph with a strain gauge attached. Keeping mind that 65k psi is max.

2)If your getting 4200+ with a 22-250 AI you are way over max press. Its as simple as that you are laying your head next to a bomb.
[/quote]

----------------------------------------------------

1) We've been at it with this cartridge for about as long, since '89.

2) Bullsh#t.......a 28" barrel 14twist, no freebore/tight neck, 50gr BT, PMC brass.....about 1200rds through that particular gun. Another 14 twist, 25" Walther, tight chamber no freebore, about 1500 through this one. Altitude 4500-6500', up to over 100* temp. Think what you want but it's not a bomb.

 

[jghoghunter]

[quote author=jghoghunter

1) After playing with these cartridges since the early 90's along with a 33 chronograph with a strain gauge attached. Keeping mind that 65k psi is max.

2)If your getting 4200+ with a 22-250 AI you are way over max press. Its as simple as that you are laying your head next to a bomb.

---------------------------------------------------

1) We've been at it with this cartridge for about as long, since '89.

2) Bullsh#t.......a 28" barrel 14twist, no freebore/tight neck, 50gr BT, PMC brass.....about 1200rds through that particular gun. Another 14 twist, 25" Walther, tight chamber no freebore, about 1500 through this one. Altitude 4500-6500', up to over 100* temp. Think what you want but it's not a bomb.
[/quote]


Myself, the chronograph, and all the other normal info on the interweb are wrong and you sir are right. My apologies. Enjoy your AI.

 

[CatShooter]

A 22-250AI is about the equivalent of a standard Swift, you still have to fireform the brass and more time is spent just fireforming and in my mind the brass needs to be shot twice, FL sized, plus annealed before you realize the benefit of a 22-250-AI which is almost a Swift, so one could rule that out.

Nonsense.
The AI is at 4200 to 4200+ with 50's is a bit more than equivalent.

Always funny when ex-purts talk about "time spent fireforming" It's not "fireforming," it's working up a load and shooting it in the field......50's at 4000-4100. And out comes a perfect case. If it takes two firings you're not doing it right. Also it's a case with little taper and no stretching. Annealing isn't required.

Is 55gr accuracy load with a Swift at over 4000?

After playing with these cartridges since the early 90's along with a 33 chronograph with a strain gauge attached. Keeping mind that 65k psi is max. If your getting 4200+ with a 22-250 AI you are way over max press. Its as simple as that you are laying your head next to a bomb.

Nonsense.

I have owned one 22-250 AI, and it was OK.

There was a time when, if it didn't have a 40° shoulder, I wasn't interested... but lousy gunsmithing, badd (read long) chambers, head separations, and the cost of "Schedule D" dies got real old.

I prefer the .220 Swift (they are about equal, depending on the throat length), and 4,200 with a 50, and 4,100 with a 55gr are easy to attain safely, with either cartridge, if you have long barrels.

My Norma cases last forever, and I have a heavy hand on the scale.

 

[calib]

Anyone ever run the 60 to 65 grain bullets from the 22 250 ai or 22 243? Thinking about trying them out. I have the 75 a max going 3400 rite now

 

[357Mag]

Calib -

Howdy !

For a 1-14 .22-250, any custom 60's would need to be not longer than .750" in-order to stabilize; based on what I've seen.

Sierra's blunt 63's shot ok for me, but were nothing exceptional... not a great groundhog bullet; anywayz.

I ran 75 "A"-max @ 3,420fps for the accuracy load in my wildcat .22-35 Rem. That rifle had a 28" 1-18.
That bullet was good all-around for both varmint/target, and I only shot through a groundhog once w/ it ( on a not ideally place shot ).
A 29" barrel would have been even better.

IMHO -
Sierra 65 SPBTs would make for an interesting selection, when pressing a varmint shot to perhaps 600.
A 1-12 might be too close the ragged edge, for 65's @ .22-250 vel. Y.R.M.V.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[CatShooter]

I ran 75 "A"-max @ 3,420fps for the accuracy load in my wildcat .22-35 Rem. That rifle had a 28" 1-18.

With regards,
357Mag

Was that 1-18" a typo??

A lotta guys find that 1:14" is marginal with 55gr plastic tipped bullet, and they are typically 0.820 long.

Hornady says that 1:12" is needed with their 53gr V-Max (at 0.830" long), though it (and the 55 SBK) will shoot in a 1:14" if driven hard at 22-250 and .220 Swift velocities.

So a 75 A-Max, 1.10" long, in a 1:18" twist, at 3420 just doesn't compute.

 

[calib]

I have a 1:8 22 250 ai that is running that amax at a decent clip but am working on a 22 243 for them. Thinking i may just put a little lighter bullet in and see what i can do with it. I would like to use the sierra 65 grain btsp. Hard to find though