Hornady ELD-Ms, gone and good riddance!!!

[muleman69]

Phideoux the Wonder Dog,,she don't care what flavor it is,,it is GONE,,,View attachment 1053516

How old is the pup? How did you happen on the name. (really like chocolate labs)

 

[pirate ammo]

How old is the pup? How did you happen on the name. (really like chocolate labs)

4 years and still like a puppy,its in their nature,,worked with people from Louisiana for 40 years always said was going to use that name,,get another it will be Boudroux,,,
before and after,,,

 

[Steve Donlon]

But problems from a .284 case? That’s what 95% of shooters have used waaay before the ELD-Match was introduced. Steve, what case is used in “matches” smaller than a .284 that can also shoot a 7mm 180 grain bullet??? C’mon.

Does Berger call its darn good 195-H a “match” bullet, yet, no. They will NOT yellow box that bullet until they know it won’t disappont in “matches”. Thank goodness there’s a place to discuss issues.

Dave, what outcome do you expect will happen from complaining about these bullets. Compensation for your discomfort from loosing a match while pushing a bullet from a 7mm ultra mag faster than it will go. Or on behalf of guys with smaller cases that have problems? Sue Hornady. Or are you just sounding off. I think if it was such a problem more could be done. Just asking, because if it happened to me, I would do more.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Dave, what outcome do you expect will happen from complaining about these bullets. Compensation for your discomfort from loosing a match while pushing a bullet from a 7mm ultra mag faster than it will go. Or on behalf of guys with smaller cases that have problems? Sue Hornady. Or are you just sounding off. I think if it was such a problem more could be done. Just asking, because if it happened to me, I would do more.

I can't speak for "Dave" or Area 51, but there comes a time when it is known that nothing will be done, so throwing a post like this out brings some relief. It comes in the form being able to vent, and of comedic relief, because the fanboys start to pile on. It's amazing at the finger pointing, I said early on in this post, guys who've had it happen, blame the product and the company, for whom it works, the person or environment the root cause.
Today, with the advent of the internet, I buy products based off some reviews, when the enthusiasm becomes so sickening, that products are better than canned beer, I literally run from them. Because ultimately I feel anyone bragging up a product that hard has something to gain from it. I'm more associated with the prs crowd than the benchrest crowd, and with guys bragging up sponsors products, it gets tough to decipher what is real and what is junk.
SHOT is a major player here too, products get touted for a big release at SHOT, a lot have fizzled out by May, and the process starts again.

 

[beemanjohn]

Wow, this thread kind of took on a life of its own. The way I look at it, anyone who go's to a 1000 yard match shooting the lowest priced "match" bullet on the market gets what he asked for.

 

[davidjoe]

Dave, what outcome do you expect will happen from complaining about these bullets. Compensation for your discomfort from loosing a match while pushing a bullet from a 7mm ultra mag faster than it will go. Or on behalf of guys with smaller cases that have problems? Sue Hornady. Or are you just sounding off. I think if it was such a problem more could be done. Just asking, because if it happened to me, I would do more.

If Hornady looks into the jacket durability issue because of these types of comments, I think they’ll concur an improvement is needed and tweak something, and that’s plenty for me. Shooters will have a better additional bullet option. If guys with solid reloading experience are doubting themselves over squib loading some cases, who may now be relieved that this maybe didn’t happen, it’s also enough. Or the guys wondering if their sight is failing them. When I scored misses last October, no one assumed a bullet frag problem. No one said, hey read the forum on a possibility. I felt incompetent in loading cases.

Hornady says they are staffed with all shooters, and so I know they care, and while few employees answering customer calls typically have the liberty to discuss what the company knows or thinks on something like this, they can print a few of these off for internal review, or just paraphrase us to their balistician. That would be a satisfying result. Hornady is super ambitious, who else makes a full range of brass, bullets, loaded ammo, dies, etc. and for handguns too. It’s a lot of products to keep up with. Like I mentioned, my bet is they are actually grateful for feedback, blunt or not. They’re big boys.

But ultimately I don’t care if they thumb their nose at me or us, if the posts help other shooters somehow, by reading these. And if they didn’t help a soul, that’s alright, it’s experience shared, that I know is valid.

I also know I pushed their bullets hard. I’ve said a few times on the forum I don’t blame them for a thing as far my blowing their bullets in an RSAUM goes. RSAUM is not a regularly seen match case, at least not yet. Some ranges don’t even permit magnums in matches. Most guys have never blown a match bullet so this is only a conceptual discussion to them. Over my recent magnum-match shooting times, the major brands’ relative strengths are now empirical to me, not abstract or theoretical. Limits were discovered on everything I shot, in matches (unfortunately) and otherwise. I related three brands in relative strength to each other. You may never put a sports car on a skid pad until traction is lost or test top speed but don’t we like knowing how they compare in reviews?

All these posts about concern, I add my .02$ to; the 180 ELD-M is more fragile, quite so. Yes, we must master shooting within the bullets’ limits. That’s something I said myself several weeks back in a different thread, it should still be there. I also praised how really good match bullets are, these days. I’ve said 3-4 times how highly accurate the ELD 180 is.

I don’t think ELD Match ought to blow from a .284, though. It’s the smallest case I know of that can shoot a 180 ELD in matches. Its parameters shooter to shooter are similar and well known. I doubt Area51 set out to test 180’s with an anomalous rig. Imagine the troubles that a Shehane, a SAUM, a WSM, a Rem Mag, or any number of wilcats will have.

That’s why Area51’s post is so relevant. It’s the case so widely used. Even supposing he’s got a bit more twist or powder than average, there will be a lot of overlapping shooters out there. Not a Hornady hater.

 

[Stan Taylor]

I see a lot of dissatisfaction in folks an have not read ever post here in case I missed it what twist rate are people having the most trouble with especially would like to know what the op of this post is running.

 

[284winner]

If Hornady looks into the jacket durability issue because of these types of comments, I think they’ll concur an improvement is needed and tweak something, and that’s plenty for me. Shooters will have a better additional bullet option. If guys with solid reloading experience are doubting themselves over squib loading some cases, who may now be relieved that this maybe didn’t happen, it’s also enough. Or the guys wondering if their sight is failing them. When I scored misses last October, no one assumed a bullet frag problem. No one said, hey read the forum on a possibility. I felt incompetent in loading cases.

Hornady says they are staffed with all shooters, and so I know they care, and while few employees answering customer calls typically have the liberty to discuss what the company knows or thinks on something like this, they can print a few of these off for internal review, or just paraphrase us to their balistician. That would be a satisfying result. Hornady is super ambitious, who else makes a full range of brass, bullets, loaded ammo, dies, etc. and for handguns too. It’s a lot of products to keep up with. Like I mentioned, my bet is they are actually grateful for feedback, blunt or not. They’re big boys.

But ultimately I don’t care if they thumb their nose at me or us, if the posts help other shooters somehow, by reading these. And if they didn’t help a soul, that’s alright, it’s experience shared, that I know is valid.

I also know I pushed their bullets hard. I’ve said a few times on the forum I don’t blame them for a thing as far my blowing their bullets in an RSAUM goes. RSAUM is not a regularly seen match case, at least not yet. Some ranges don’t even permit magnums in matches. Most guys have never blown a match bullet so this is only a conceptual discussion to them. Over my recent magnum-match shooting times, the major brands’ relative strengths are now empirical to me, not abstract or theoretical. Limits were discovered on everything I shot, in matches (unfortunately) and otherwise. I related three brands in relative strength to each other. You may never put a sports car on a skid pad until traction is lost or test top speed but don’t we like knowing how they compare in reviews?

All these posts about concern, I add my .02$ to; the 180 ELD-M is more fragile, quite so. Yes, we must master shooting within the bullets’ limits. That’s something I said myself several weeks back in a different thread, it should still be there. I also praised how really good match bullets are, these days. I’ve said 3-4 times how highly accurate the ELD 180 is.

I don’t think ELD Match ought to blow from a .284, though. It’s the smallest case I know of that can shoot a 180 ELD in matches. Its parameters shooter to shooter are similar and well known. I doubt Area51 set out to test 180’s with an anomalous rig. Imagine the troubles that a Shehane, a SAUM, a WSM, a Rem Mag, or any number of wilcats will have.

That’s why Area51’s post is so relevant. It’s the case so widely used. Even supposing he’s got a bit more twist or powder than average, there will be a lot of overlapping shooters out there. Not a Hornady hater.

Well said. Facts don't make people haters, only fact finders.

 

[AckleymanII]

I don't think that it is the jacket, I think that it is the core. The first berger 105's had the same problem, they fixed the issue by adding tin to the core. Same with Sierra lead tip blitz, pure lead core vs regular bullet with tougher core.

Hornady maybe a victim of a mix up at the plant where their lead wire is being produced. A mix up in the % of antimony or tin that is added to the mix would surely produce the "Poofs" that some shooters are seeing.

The base of the bullet undergoes tremendous torque as it obturates in the barrel. If the jacket is stressed from a lack of support from a soft core, the result will be an unbalanced bullet. Hot and dirty barrels would accentuate the problem of a stressed jacket.

A lot of our lead comes from China. It would be interesting to know what kind of lab techniques is used to test lead wire that comes into a factory. This certainly would raise the cost of bullet making. Checking alloy mix for making jackets would be in the same lab.

 

[shoot4fun]

A lot of our lead comes from China. It would be interesting to know what kind of lab techniques is used to test lead wire that comes into a factory. This certainly would raise the cost of bullet making. Checking alloy mix for making jackets would be in the same lab.

I've been there and have seen all the many steps they take with lead. It does not arrive as wire; they go thru several purification and mixing steps before it is turned into wire right there at the Hornady plant.

 

[jdh47]

We can thank Obama for driving the lead smelting business out of the country.

 

[hogpatrol]

I would give them to you if we were more local. What you need to understand is i really enjoyed trashing them, i would never want any of the people i actually know in real life to be disappointed the way so many of us have been. Purely an elimination of an irritating problem.

I have a partial box, 85 pieces plus or minus, of Nosler 7mm 175 gr. Accubond LR. I'll ship them to you, no charge, to try. Who knows? Maybe they will outdo other brands and relieve some of your frustration with brand H. I shot them out of a 28 Nosler, forget what speed but they weren't slow and they held together. Small sample but didn't take long to figure out my rifle didn't like them. Yours for the asking!

 

[Area51]

Its OK to question, believe what you see.
Do not be hypnotized by the sparkly red and silver sales tactics, the evil is inside.
You can teach a person to shoot,, can you tech them to know the difference in the components vs their acquired skills?
With the 4th approaching quickly, do you think that PR and crew were not ridiculed, belittled, why cant you settle for what we are told, who do you think you are allowed to say such things..... and so on. Some find it comforting to be in the haze of the Horna Cult, then there are those of us that cannot be anything but truthful and free.

Control through Chaos and conflict.

 

[Evan]

Its OK to question, believe what you see.
Do not be hypnotized by the sparkly red and silver sales tactics, the evil is inside.
You can tech a person to shoot,, can you tech them to know the difference in the components vs their acquired skills?
With the 4th approaching quickly, do you think that PR and crew were not ridiculed, belittled, why cant you settle for what we are told, who do you think you are to say such things..... and so on. Some find it comforting to be in the haze of the Horna Cult, then there ore those of us that cannot be anything but truthful and free.

Control through Chaos and conflict.

Hahaha, what are you talking about? There are a lot of folks here, having an articulate discussion about this issue and your post makes no sense in the context of this discussion or anything else.

 

[Someoldguy]

 

[Area51]

I fixed the typos, i am sorry, hahahahahaha, otherwise, carry on,,,

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[Pietro panama]

First time I have ever read 8 pages of both objective observations co-mingled with whatever. Finished my novel and had nothing else to read??? All I can say is buy a Tundra and avoid Detroit engineering, or lack thereof.

 

[joshb]

Hacker bump.

 

[Area51]

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[Idaho-Lefty]

Could the problem be the barrel or twist rate Perhaps the rate of fire. How often is the barrel being cleaned?

THIS ^^^ "Bingo" ! Here IS,.. the ANSWER, to the, Bullet's,.. "failure" !
Too much Velocity, DIRTY/ Hot Barrel, possibly, too tight of, a Twist ! JRS, had this, "figured out", several Pages, back as, it's NOT,.. "Rocket Science" !
Hornady Bullets, "USUALLY", shoot very well and are, reasonably priced ! NO, they are NOT custom Target or, Berger, Bullets !
I LOVE, the 87 V-Max at, 3,100 FPS in my .243 Win Tikka and the 52 grain .22 Cal's in my, .22-250 Rem. I've killed several Deer and Antelope with their .270 , 150 grain, Interlock Bullets, in my .270 Wby. I won't let, ONE person's, "bashing", stop me from buying, reasonably priced, Hornady Bullets for MY,.. "intended purposes".