Hornady ELD-Ms, gone and good riddance!!!
- Thread starter Area51
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No dog in this fight, but I have used them in 4 weights at .224 and two weights of the 6.5. My groups are fine. I will say there are two types of shooters on this web site though. Perfectionist who can't be satisfied with anything. And I meant every word of that. And shooters that accept what they have and what they can do and work at improving the shooter and not the tools. Both are fine, but when one tries to influence the other you end up with 10 pages of stuff.
Well said right there .
I figured that you were talking about discussing the failures and virtues of the ELDM bullets, which is chronicled in this 9... now 10 page thread. Did I misunderstand? There is a lot of good info sprinkled throughout if you haven't read it all. If you are looking for info on something specific, ask away!
Evan, I must have misunderstood and thought there was an article 9 pages long not the thread. Thx for pointing it out.
New to the forum and trying to learn more !
Seems like everyone sharpened their knives last night!!
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
FWIW - I have recently been working up a load with the 88 ELDMs over Varget in a .223 Rem F-TR rifle (30" 6.8-twist barrel, 0.220" freebore). My observations are listed below.
Positive
1) The 88 ELDMs are probably the most dimensionally consistent bullet out of the box I've ever used. There was simply no need for any kind of length sorting.
2) I was able develop a load that grouped extremely well at 100 and 600 yd, so the precision is more than acceptable.
3) As determined using velocity drop (LabRadar data), the estimated BC is significantly higher than the "box value". (0.306 average estimated G7 BC versus 0.274 advertised G7 BC)
Negative
1) Jacket failures - I've had at least two fail during the load development process.
Unfortunately, this "negative" markedly outweighs all the positive features of the 88 ELDM bullets. In F-TR competition, you cannot afford a single missed shot (i.e. a "zero"). No matter how good a bullet groups or how high it's BC, if it doesn't make it to the target every time, it's a deal-breaker...I can never trust these bullets in a match.
In fairness, I am pushing the 88s at approximately 2830 fps from a 6.8-twist barrel, which translates to approximately 299K RPM. This load is at the very upper end of safe operating pressure according to SAAMI specs. It is worth note that myself and others have also had similar jacket failures using Berger 90 VLDs at velocities of 2830 to 2850 fps, generally out of barrels with a twist rate faster than 7.0. Nonetheless, there are other 80+ gr heavy .224 cal bullets that seem to withstand comparable or higher RPMs without failure. Regardless of the bullet manufacturer, if it becomes necessary to drop load velocity by 75 to 100 fps (or more) just so the jacket will survive its entire journey to the target face, then it really doesn't matter how consistent the bullets are, how well they group, how easy to load they are, or how high the BC is. I'm not going to be too hard on Hornady here for their 88 ELDMs, I think they've produced a very good bullet for those that are willing to use mild loads and accept the lesser ballistic performance. However, in F-TR competition, it is necessary to push .223 Rem loads with heavy bullets hard, or you're simply giving up too much performance to keep up with .308s and 200 gr high BC bullets. Much as I had hoped the 88s would prove to be a winning combination, I'll keep looking.
Positive
1) The 88 ELDMs are probably the most dimensionally consistent bullet out of the box I've ever used. There was simply no need for any kind of length sorting.
2) I was able develop a load that grouped extremely well at 100 and 600 yd, so the precision is more than acceptable.
3) As determined using velocity drop (LabRadar data), the estimated BC is significantly higher than the "box value". (0.306 average estimated G7 BC versus 0.274 advertised G7 BC)
Negative
1) Jacket failures - I've had at least two fail during the load development process.
Unfortunately, this "negative" markedly outweighs all the positive features of the 88 ELDM bullets. In F-TR competition, you cannot afford a single missed shot (i.e. a "zero"). No matter how good a bullet groups or how high it's BC, if it doesn't make it to the target every time, it's a deal-breaker...I can never trust these bullets in a match.
In fairness, I am pushing the 88s at approximately 2830 fps from a 6.8-twist barrel, which translates to approximately 299K RPM. This load is at the very upper end of safe operating pressure according to SAAMI specs. It is worth note that myself and others have also had similar jacket failures using Berger 90 VLDs at velocities of 2830 to 2850 fps, generally out of barrels with a twist rate faster than 7.0. Nonetheless, there are other 80+ gr heavy .224 cal bullets that seem to withstand comparable or higher RPMs without failure. Regardless of the bullet manufacturer, if it becomes necessary to drop load velocity by 75 to 100 fps (or more) just so the jacket will survive its entire journey to the target face, then it really doesn't matter how consistent the bullets are, how well they group, how easy to load they are, or how high the BC is. I'm not going to be too hard on Hornady here for their 88 ELDMs, I think they've produced a very good bullet for those that are willing to use mild loads and accept the lesser ballistic performance. However, in F-TR competition, it is necessary to push .223 Rem loads with heavy bullets hard, or you're simply giving up too much performance to keep up with .308s and 200 gr high BC bullets. Much as I had hoped the 88s would prove to be a winning combination, I'll keep looking.
Looks like the Hornady's newest "A Tip" bullets will more than likely replace the ELD-Ms. All the data looks very promising. Just hope the complaints have been answered regarding bullet failure in you guys shooting competition with them. Seems like these new bullets are more designed for the ELR game initially. Only 3 caliber offerings but fairly heavy for caliber bullets. Surprisingly no 7mm or 338 offerings at this date. High BCs for sure. Consistency trump's high BC but there promising both.
Me as well. Many aren't so happy tho. Numerous stories of bullet separation and blowups. Not even sure there newest bullets will solve that issue.
Maybe not but they may discontinue the ones that have had the most issues with. They've been flooded with feedback on certain bullets blowing up.
Love them or hate them hornady has done a lot for the shooting community. You can buy a savage 6.5 or 6mm creedmoor and shoot a lot of groups under an inch at 200 with factory hornady ammo. Are there better bullets of course. If you don’t mind spending twice as much money.
Maybe with the aluminum tip, a portion of the bullet will make to the target after it blows up. Plastics have no weight to carry forward.
They advertise in the media blasts they re currently doing that the jacket process is the same, AMP (All Most Perfect)
Extensive testing that will begin shortly will determine if its the same old story, consumer grade, or truly a bullet worth $75/ hundred.
Hornady mass markets to the pedestrian consumer class clientele, the rest is hype and invented science, their version. The data proves this to be correct, to date.
We shall see.
The boxes sure do stand out on the shelves , so sparkly and pretty. those must be really good, look how pretty.
Hopefully they did some meaningful testing this time instead f trying to lie and cover it up after they found out the bullets were a failure in any matches that mattered.
We shall see.
Extensive testing that will begin shortly will determine if its the same old story, consumer grade, or truly a bullet worth $75/ hundred.
Hornady mass markets to the pedestrian consumer class clientele, the rest is hype and invented science, their version. The data proves this to be correct, to date.
We shall see.
The boxes sure do stand out on the shelves , so sparkly and pretty. those must be really good, look how pretty.
Hopefully they did some meaningful testing this time instead f trying to lie and cover it up after they found out the bullets were a failure in any matches that mattered.
We shall see.
I'm taking it you have some to test on backorder?
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