I don't compete, but I like shooting small groups, .2 or less. So, I use the 3 B's. Bergers, Bibs and Barts.
PopCharlie
PopCharlie
Hornady bullets
- Thread starter Bottom Fodder
- Start date
Awesome!And yes, @FrankG , it was a Bartlein.
Not sticking the fingers in anyone's eye here directly so don't take it that way but to touch on what some others have said and to add to this....
As has been noted... what are you using the gun for and or what is your accuracy requirement? This or that bullet makers bullets... even from the same maker some bullets are better than others. I think for example the 30cal 155gr BTHP bullet from Hornady is a good bullet but I don't think it's a great bullet. I'll take the 168AMAX any day over the 155.
You / We can argue all you want about who's bullets are better but I've seen issues with Berger's as well.
Also remember these three things.... bullets, powder and barrel. These three things have to work together more than anything else. Just because a given bullet doesn't shoot good in your set up doesn't mean the bullets are bad or that the barrel is bad etc... you just might not have the right tune or load for a given set up. Barrel variations in bore and groove size vs bullet size, twist uniformity or twist rate for that matter being fast enough for a given bullet etc... there is more to think about then just the bullet.
I hear guys complaining about the accuracy from Hornady Amax bullets or the ELDM's or that the tips melt and cause accuracy issues etc... but all the ones I've shot I've had no issues with. I've shot the 225 ELDM's and the 230SMK in testing back to back at a 1k yards and other than a .25moa difference in vertical impact on the target the accuracy was the same. Both held 1/3moa at a 1k yards. What more do you want?
Also it's not fair bringing up BR guns and talking what I will call production match bullets. I don't care if it's a Berger or a SMK or a ELDM bullet... all of those are production match type bullets. The Bergers are not custom match bullets like BART's or BIB's or Hottensteins etc.... most of the top BR guys are either making they're own bullets or buying custom bullets but they will tell you... even the custom bullets will vary.
As has been noted... what are you using the gun for and or what is your accuracy requirement? This or that bullet makers bullets... even from the same maker some bullets are better than others. I think for example the 30cal 155gr BTHP bullet from Hornady is a good bullet but I don't think it's a great bullet. I'll take the 168AMAX any day over the 155.
You / We can argue all you want about who's bullets are better but I've seen issues with Berger's as well.
Also remember these three things.... bullets, powder and barrel. These three things have to work together more than anything else. Just because a given bullet doesn't shoot good in your set up doesn't mean the bullets are bad or that the barrel is bad etc... you just might not have the right tune or load for a given set up. Barrel variations in bore and groove size vs bullet size, twist uniformity or twist rate for that matter being fast enough for a given bullet etc... there is more to think about then just the bullet.
I hear guys complaining about the accuracy from Hornady Amax bullets or the ELDM's or that the tips melt and cause accuracy issues etc... but all the ones I've shot I've had no issues with. I've shot the 225 ELDM's and the 230SMK in testing back to back at a 1k yards and other than a .25moa difference in vertical impact on the target the accuracy was the same. Both held 1/3moa at a 1k yards. What more do you want?
Also it's not fair bringing up BR guns and talking what I will call production match bullets. I don't care if it's a Berger or a SMK or a ELDM bullet... all of those are production match type bullets. The Bergers are not custom match bullets like BART's or BIB's or Hottensteins etc.... most of the top BR guys are either making they're own bullets or buying custom bullets but they will tell you... even the custom bullets will vary.
FNSafari
Gold $$ Contributor
if'n ur shooting groups like that consistently you should consider registered group shooting. You will do your share of winning.
The minute of steel prs folks might I don't know anyone that's shooting them in any other discipline and winning.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
From what I heard, Hornady makes the Vapor Trail automated version.
There was a guy on here that used to post every day. He was some kind of world record long range benchrest guy. He said the 6mm 110 atip shot as good as any bullet he had ever shot.
There was a guy on here that used to post every day. He was some kind of world record long range benchrest guy. He said the 6mm 110 atip shot as good as any bullet he had ever shot.
The 6mm 105 gr. BTHP Match can be had for ~$.24 a piece. At that price, they MUST be junk, right?
That bullet got me my MR High Master card, my first MR clean (600-38X), and I've won more than my share of club matches with it.
The 108 gr. ELD-Ms are reliably precise and very consistent, too, with a very good BC to boot.
A bullet doesn't have to do mortal damage to a dollar bill to be good.
That bullet got me my MR High Master card, my first MR clean (600-38X), and I've won more than my share of club matches with it.
The 108 gr. ELD-Ms are reliably precise and very consistent, too, with a very good BC to boot.
A bullet doesn't have to do mortal damage to a dollar bill to be good.
I've shot a metric crap ton 108 ELDs over the years, I changed from VLD to Hybrids to ELDs over the years and never thought about going back. This is for LR Steel, F class and Hunting at different ranges so no BR, in 308 the 168gr Amax runs with any 168gr Berger I've shot.
The real difference comes when you change lots, Hornady tends to have much bigger lot to lot variances so I just buy enough of "my lot" to last a barrel.
The big A-tips that I have delt with in magnums shot very well
The real difference comes when you change lots, Hornady tends to have much bigger lot to lot variances so I just buy enough of "my lot" to last a barrel.
The big A-tips that I have delt with in magnums shot very well
When I shot service rifle, I could never shoot the X count at 200 & 300 yd RF using the Hornady 75gr BTHP. 69SIE's consistently shot tighter knots by far (15X @ 300 yds w/irons).
It wasn't until year 2000 that I gave up on the red box bullets. While leading our state LR championship, I had a 105 A-Max go poof and it cost me the aggregate. This was out of a relatively new 1:8" twist Krieger that was a real hummer, at least until then. It was chambered in 6/250 and I never drove my bullets hard.
For whitetails, there isn't much better than the SST in non-magnum calibers. For match shooting, their history isn't great.
It wasn't until year 2000 that I gave up on the red box bullets. While leading our state LR championship, I had a 105 A-Max go poof and it cost me the aggregate. This was out of a relatively new 1:8" twist Krieger that was a real hummer, at least until then. It was chambered in 6/250 and I never drove my bullets hard.
For whitetails, there isn't much better than the SST in non-magnum calibers. For match shooting, their history isn't great.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
It's funny. I don't know ANYONE who uses Bergers for anything other than target shooting. But all other bullets are "junk", especially Hornady. I'm sure there are people that use Bergers to hunt or some other purpose, but they are rare. Too expensive for varmint shooting for sure...
Hornady, with all their flaws, did not ABANDON their customers for greener pastures and richer customers when the rubber met the road. I know my customers are shooting them. Lots and lots and lots of them. I shoot them. They are the only company that has a new varmint bullet design in 30 years.
I don't compete in any organized shooting game. I varmint hunt, medium and heavy game hunt. I use Hornady because they work for me.
My 223 (on calm days) shoots 1 1/8" at 300 yards, my 6MM Remington shoots 1 1/16" at 300 yards.
My custom 03 Remington in 358 Norma Magnum shoots about 1 1/4" at 300 yards. My Custom 98 Mauser in 450 Marlin with iron sghts shoots 1 ragged hole with 500 grain soft points or solids at 50 yards.
Better yet a few years ago we had a massive chuck infestation at our range, digging the hell out of everything. My son, one of his friends and I were shooting a bit. At the end we were packing up and a chuck popped out just past the 200 yard backstop. I turned to face down range dropped a round in my iron sighted Remington Model 17, I leaned against the pavilion post and in about 5 seconds tagged him.
Walked out, 265 yards 1 shot 1 kill with a 105 year old iron sighted battle rifle. Bullet was a 165 grain Hornady BTSP. Performance comes in many forms.
My 223 (on calm days) shoots 1 1/8" at 300 yards, my 6MM Remington shoots 1 1/16" at 300 yards.
My custom 03 Remington in 358 Norma Magnum shoots about 1 1/4" at 300 yards. My Custom 98 Mauser in 450 Marlin with iron sghts shoots 1 ragged hole with 500 grain soft points or solids at 50 yards.
Better yet a few years ago we had a massive chuck infestation at our range, digging the hell out of everything. My son, one of his friends and I were shooting a bit. At the end we were packing up and a chuck popped out just past the 200 yard backstop. I turned to face down range dropped a round in my iron sighted Remington Model 17, I leaned against the pavilion post and in about 5 seconds tagged him.
Walked out, 265 yards 1 shot 1 kill with a 105 year old iron sighted battle rifle. Bullet was a 165 grain Hornady BTSP. Performance comes in many forms.
@urbanrifleman I know plenty of hunters who shoot Bergers. They make a fine hunting bullet.
Retired shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
No competition shooter here, other than against myself.
Been working with this for about 2 yers now, slowed down with one health issue after another.
Using 110 A Tips with Leverevolution I worked up a stout load for a 6 ARC gas gun. 26 in Bartlein barrel. First chance to get to long range last Friday, walked it out from 300 yards, to 1400 yards one shot at a time. Missed the 1400 twice. Transition to 1761 yards , hit 24 X 24 steel plate after 9 attempts. Made 3 hits.. Son was more exited than I was. Lots of folks told me 6 ARC gas gun won't get it done at 1760. Including the manufacturer who built the upper for me. Personally know a very successful King of 1 mile that used the A Tips his first year with great success.
Have had very little success finding Sierra, or Bergers, so can't say anything good or bad till I have some in hand.
Everyone have a great day!
Been working with this for about 2 yers now, slowed down with one health issue after another.
Using 110 A Tips with Leverevolution I worked up a stout load for a 6 ARC gas gun. 26 in Bartlein barrel. First chance to get to long range last Friday, walked it out from 300 yards, to 1400 yards one shot at a time. Missed the 1400 twice. Transition to 1761 yards , hit 24 X 24 steel plate after 9 attempts. Made 3 hits.. Son was more exited than I was. Lots of folks told me 6 ARC gas gun won't get it done at 1760. Including the manufacturer who built the upper for me. Personally know a very successful King of 1 mile that used the A Tips his first year with great success.
Have had very little success finding Sierra, or Bergers, so can't say anything good or bad till I have some in hand.
Everyone have a great day!
You do realize that's almost a quarter century ago right?
Interesting enough that ELDM's are known to still go 'poof' over a quarter century later.
In all fairness, any bullet can 'come from together' on the way to the target is a barrel is too hot/firecracked/velocity too fast.Dimner
I do believe in Captain Crunch.
Me and my hunting buddy compete every year for the most antler points and biggest doe. We both use Hornady interlocks most often
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