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High BC Varmint bullets - needed

I realize I'm kidding myself, hoping for any new products when manufactures can't even fill current order these days...

BUT, I sure wish somebody would come out with high BC, plastic tipped, varmint bullets. Seems Hornady could do that quite easily, and seems they had that with the old A-Max...only apparent deficit with those was bullet profile/ogive had low BC relative to weight class. Gosh...throw a thinner jacket the ELD lineup, and some of that old-school plastic that softened in route to target, and we'd have Vmax-ELD! Maybe little bigger meplat/plastic tip too by way of slightly shorter jacket.

Wishful thinking I suppose...
 
I've been using Sierra BlitzKings with decent results.
But then i'm using 25 caliber & usually keep shots within 400 yards.

What i want is something like Berger's 115gr VLD, but in a hybrid ogive.
 
I have been hoping for the same thing for the last 10 years
Yeah, I can only surmise they don't feel they would sell enough, since most would be using light weight vmax-like options (myself included) for most high-volume shooting. Still, all they (Hornady) would have to do is a thinner jacket using the ELD bullet dies and polymer forms...so wouldnt be a huge re-tooling investement.
 
Although very expensive, I wonder how the 110 grain A tip would expand on smaller varmints. Has a great BC and very good accuracy. Anybody tried this yet? Just thinking out loud.

Paul
 
I've been using Sierra BlitzKings with decent results.
But then i'm using 25 caliber & usually keep shots within 400 yards.

What i want is something like Berger's 115gr VLD, but in a hybrid ogive.
Have you been using the 25 cal 90gn Blitzking? Cause it seems to have BC similar to the 6mm 87 Vmax, and I was thinking a cartridge pushing the 90 Blitzking at around 3,500fps would do nicely out to 600yards, or to 400 yards in high winds. 25-284 class maybe. Bet it would be a grenade 400 yds or less.
 
Although very expensive, I wonder how the 110 grain A tip would expand on smaller varmints. Has a great BC and very good accuracy. Anybody tried this yet? Just thinking out loud.

Paul
I would assume, with nothing but theory to support,, it would pencil through small critters. I think what makes the polymer tips so darn explosive is the polymer softens/melts in route to target, offering no resistance. But you might be into something. If they could make that machined tip out of something more brittle, like magnesium, maybe it would evaporate upon impact.
 
75gr 22cal Hornady ELD Match has a bc of .467. A fast twist 22-250 with maybe a 1 in 7'' twist coud be a possible choice. Looking at load manuals l see 3300fps is about max speed
 
Have you been using the 25 cal 90gn Blitzking? Cause it seems to have BC similar to the 6mm 87 Vmax, and I was thinking a cartridge pushing the 90 Blitzking at around 3,500fps would do nicely out to 600yards, or to 400 yards in high winds. 25-284 class maybe. Bet it would be a grenade 400 yds or less.
I shoot a lot of the 90gr BlitzKings.
But my 250Savage & 257Roberts are no where near those velocities!

Hmmm, maybe a Lazzeroni 6.53 Scramjet with the 135gr Berger's could be interesting!
 
I shoot a lot of the 90gr BlitzKings.
But my 250Savage & 257Roberts are no where near those velocities!

Hmmm, maybe a Lazzeroni 6.53 Scramjet with the 135gr Berger's could be interesting!
A 25 Creedmoor would surely be in the 3350-3400 range with 90gn pills, so that wouldnt be a bad setup and not too overbore.
 
A plastic tipped 80gr. Berger varmint for my 6BRA would be pure bliss and awesome groundhog medicine.
 
I have shot nothing but pointed VLD's in my coyote loads for several years, and have seen zero issues with them opening up. 80 grain VLD targets at 3370 or 105 hunting VLD's at 3000 or so.

I did shoot a couple of unfortunate PDs one day with the 80's, and I believe I set the altitude record with one of them. There was no question on whether the bullet opened up sufficiently or not.
 
I realize I'm kidding myself, hoping for any new products when manufactures can't even fill current order these days...

BUT, I sure wish somebody would come out with high BC, plastic tipped, varmint bullets. Seems Hornady could do that quite easily, and seems they had that with the old A-Max...only apparent deficit with those was bullet profile/ogive had low BC relative to weight class. Gosh...throw a thinner jacket the ELD lineup, and some of that old-school plastic that softened in route to target, and we'd have Vmax-ELD! Maybe little bigger meplat/plastic tip too by way of slightly shorter jacket.

Wishful thinking I suppose...
RAG -

Howdy !

I have sometimes wondered whether a long-for-its-weight explosive varmint bullet might be do-able, via use of perhaps a sintered metal or powdered metal " core " ?

Some random comments:
Whatever the bullet design / construction / calibre / wt, I suspect bullet makers will want to manufacture bullets that will sell well. This means bullets that would have to shoot successfully and shoot accurately enough to become great sellers ( customer acceptance )

In consideration of the above, one major question about a new explosive varmint bullet designs would be whether they would stabilize in existing rifles and their associated twist rates ?

Customer outcry / demand for the new bullet and both bullet and rifle manufacturer" resolve to fill the " need " made " VLDs" viable; These type of circumstances would
need to also be present; for the lighter / higher BC / explosive varmint bullet to be brought out. This has not happened, as yet. IMHO - softening of a polymer bullet tip due to aerodynamic heating would only serve to negatively impact bullet BC. Hornady has said as much, in their written reasons for the development of their newer heat resistant bullet tips.

I found the comment amount 1st generation polymer tips on bullets as being "old school "
to be somewhat humorous. Prior to the introduction of those types of bullets, varmint bullets famous for being " explosive " were Sierra's .224" call 55 " Blitz ", and Hornady's
.224" cal 55gr SX ( examples ). Both the original 55 Blitz and the Hornady's current
55 SX feature exposed lead tips. I'd think those qualify as " old school ", fer sher.

I should think the exposed lead tip on a varmint bullet shot from a high-intensity varmint cartridge would ablate on its way out to the target. That sort of tip deformation would
( again ) result in some level of negative impact on the bullet's BC ( IMHO ).

Having said that, I'll offer this....
The .224" cal 50gr and 55gr SX bullets from Hornady are made using a 009" thick jacket.
This is a key feature of the bullet's design, that help to make them " explosive ".
Hornady used to include a slip of paper in every box of SX bullets, that warned shooters not to exceed 3,400fps with these bullets. This was at a time when the prevailing .224" cal varmint rifle twist was 1-14 " ( .222, .222Mag. .223, .224 Weatherby, .225 Winchester,
.22-250; and .220 Swift as examples ). Now, I will tell you that I successfully shot the 55SX @ 3,690 fps with great terminal effects on groundhogs. And... I believe it could be successfully propelled even faster, given a dedicated rifle featuring a " slow enough " twist.

I once talked with Steve Hornady about the need for long-er range / explosive varmint bullets, specifically in .224" calibre. I was getting ready to try for a 500yd groundhogs kill, and felt using the 55SX shot from my 24" Hart SS 1-14 5-groove would be a " press ".
Steve offered that.... asking a .224" cal 55gr varmint bullet to make reliable kills @ 500yd
was asking a lot; and .22-250s and .220 Swifts were the dominate larger capacity factory chambering extant. Steve sent me small clutch of their then prototype 55 "V"-Max.
These featured a longer boat tail than the production version of the bullet they ultimately settled on. This was ostensibly because accuracy obtainable w/ the shorter BT bullet was better, and this was in-part due to the center of gravity on the bullet. And I suppose, a little more bullet wt in the jacket in the longer BT bullet had also corresponded to a slight necessary reduction in the bullet's lead core wt; which had an effect on its CG location ?? Hmmm.....

My point:
Besides bullet' cal / design / construction / wt and such, bullet lethality also includes factors like the velocity imparted to it, spin rate RPM, remaining energy @ distance; and so forth.

My thought is to impart a whole bunch of velocity to the chosen bullet, using that approach to help offset any less than stellar BC the selected bullet might have. This does not in anyway mean that useful accuracy cannot also be obtained. I used this approach with the 55SX for over 20 yr, and my rifle went 3,420 end before it keyholes it's first bullet.
And, I betcha the tips ablated on the way out; as vapor trails could often be seen in the warm/humid Indiana " blue haze " of Summer.

YRMV...

With regards,
357Mag
 
No one will ever do that. They will tell you if want 55 grs. shoot a 223 Swift or 22-250. Just my two cents Tommy Mc
Yet we see 70++ grain bullets for .224, why not just shoot a 6mm then?

Not disagreeing with your comment, as I have heard the same.
 
That is the best bullet I've found for long range Prairie Dogs. It is also the most accurate in my Panda .22/243 Imp with a 1:7.7 twist Kreiger at 3640 fps. It blows PD's up well at 700-800 yds, and is the best bullet I've found at a 1000 yds+ on them. It's not great, but still okay in anchoring the PD's at that distance. I too wish there was a better long range varmint bullet that gave better results without having to use a cannon round!
22 cal ELD max huh? I might have to give that a go, although 22/243IMP might just be a touch too oberbore fie me, but I've been wanting to try a 22GT.

Hornady seems to have the best options in this regard, but most seem to think the ELD-M isn't as expansive as the 'ol Amax
 
RAG, it's certainly not perfect...but is the best I've found so far. The 22/243 Imp can drive it fast enough to still have good velocity and energy at a 1000 yds. There is no "free lunch" though, barrel life is not great...but I have a spare already made for it. Just depends on what one is trying to accomplish. 7315br
Right...since reply yesterday, I've been giving thought to the 22-243AI notion! I was already leaning 243AI to shoot the 70 ballistic tip or blitzking near 4,000fps, on my next build,...maybe I do switchbarrel and add the 22-243AI to shoot the 75 ELD-M!! Sounds like you haven't replaced yours yet, but I'd imagine 1,000 rounds would be about it.

I'm seeing some good reports on this bullet when pushed fast!
 
357mag...I used to shoot the 50 Blitz as well...very expansive of course. I personally think/surmise/guess that it isn't necessary to have an ultra thin jacket throughout the entire bullet and, on small critters like squirrels, its more about starting the expansion rapidly. And thus, even a medium-thin jacket,, like J4, with large HP will be equally as explosive. A jacket that was tapered and ultra-thin on the leading edge, yet thick enough in body to stay together, would also do the trick in a basic HP design.

Cheers!
 

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