Helpme decide between .20 and .22

[danny]

There's also the fact that AI cartridges don't need trimming as often.

As well as being able to pick the low node/lower pressure, and get the same or a little more velocity as the parent case, which extends barrel life, throat life and brass life.

223AI is quite impressive.

So is 20-221AI.

I'm happy with both and what they offer.

Though IMO the short 221 case is better suited to a smaller action vs a standard short action, which is exactly why I went to 223AI in my M700 and why my CZ527 is still in 20-221AI.

If only there was a magazine that would take a 2.63" OACL for 223AI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because those 88's at 2800+ fps do very well at longer distances. Which brings me to using the BR case for them for my next project.

I love the 17 Fireball, but mine is in a short action Remington 700. Every time I shoot it, I feel that the action is too big for it and that I would prefer it in my CZ 527.

Danny

 

[fredo]

Fredo, you are shooting PRS with the 223AI? So, that puts you into open?

Yes, 'improving' the .223 disqualifies it from Tactical, therefore compete in Open Division against the biggest & best cartridges allowed. Heck, I could just as easy grab my 6x47L, or even a beast 6.5 4s! Yet, opt to take the .223AI for the sheer fun factor of shooting a match with it, if that helps make the point?

And it ain't all bad, either! I believe the utter lack of recoil actually allows an advantage on those 'wobbly' stages, where lotsa blast upsets an improvised position. And, its sooooo easy to see your impacts (& misses) inside of 700yds, that I think the smaller case might be a better mousetrap, altogether. Similarly, a 75grainer running just under speed limit shoots plenty flat enough to do very well on those 'pinpoint' <400yd stages...

.20VT is one cartridge I'd like to eventually build, there's ALOT to like about it! Should be a 'must have' for any p-dogger! Have used my .20TAC in 'varmint' matches, but a .20cal would literally get its lunch ate at a practical match...NOT FUN. Whereas, a .223AI can actually hang with the "Creedmoor Brigade" & even take some scalps!

Always enjoyable to ponder new builds & hear feedback...have fun!

 

[jepp2]

I guess I look at it from the standpoint of the 20VT is not a "hot rod" cartridge...you will be hard pressed to wear the brass out on a VT...therefore 200-300 pieces of Lapua will out last a few barrels...so the initial investment is really long term.

Agree with that, but since my primary focus is prairie dogs, my minimum starts around 1500 cases. Pretty easy with 20P but where I have to turn necks it becomes work. And like I mentioned earlier, I just don't have a VT "yet". I keep looking and yearning.

 

[Evan]

Sleeping Giant Brass and High Plains Brass both sell 20VT brass, formed from LC, for 40 per hundred. Yet another option...

 

[GAnderson]

Agree with that, but since my primary focus is prairie dogs, my minimum starts around 1500 cases. Pretty easy with 20P but where I have to turn necks it becomes work. And like I mentioned earlier, I just don't have a VT "yet". I keep looking and yearning.

Yes, 1500 would be a little expensive...you need to take more rifles prairie dog hunting. I usually have at least 500 rounds or pieces of brass for each cartridge and alternate between rifles when prairie dog hunting...and take at least 5 rifles. My 20VT has a .235 neck chamber...don't have to turn any brass.
When you get a 20VT you will wonder why you didn't get one sooner. It's absolutely the most fun you can have with your clothes on, bar none!

 

[jepp2]

you need to take more rifles prairie dog hunting

I normally take 5-7. I always have a backup for every loading. But since I go for a month, I have to take 7,000 rounds loaded with me.

 

[munsonbw]

Wow, this is really tough. The 223AI seems like a pretty good do all, yet I have a nice set of Forster benchrest dies in 223 already and I ask, is it really that much improved? Then, the 20VT is a cartridge everyone seems to love. I am mostly punching paper and shooting sub 400yds, so do I really need more? I guess I will think about it more until an obvious choice hits me or I simply make an impulsive decision. It's only a barrel. I can always get a different one...

 

[GAnderson]

Wow, this is really tough. The 223AI seems like a pretty good do all, yet I have a nice set of Forster benchrest dies in 223 already and I ask, is it really that much improved? Then, the 20VT is a cartridge everyone seems to love. I am mostly punching paper and shooting sub 400yds, so do I really need more? I guess I will think about it more until an obvious choice hits me or I simply make an impulsive decision. It's only a barrel. I can always get a different one...

munsonbw...build a switch barrel rig. Have you a 223AI barrel and a 20VT barrel. A barrel vise and action wrench is all it takes and barrels can be switched out in a matter of minutes. Best of both worlds and your dilemma is solved.

 

[Cakes]

Lots of great advice. Have had a bolt action .223AI for over a decade and with 50 vmax's and suppressor quite a machine but in the heat of the battle in infested PD towns when I'm about to get over-run, my weapon of choice is my suppressed 20 Practical & 40 v-max's on an AR chassis. Like someone stated, crazy accurate and ignores the wind inside of 250. Good Luck, Eric in DL

 

[varmintshooter]

I have both 223AI and 20VT, 2 each, and I like them both. I use them mainly for ghogs but do shoot some paper. When I got my can I wanted to try it on a 20vt but didn't want to cut and thread my Cooper so I took an E R Shaw barrel and had it cut and threaded @ 20". It has become my favorite. If I am going to be shooting over 400 yds most of the time I take the 223AI. I would hate to have to pick only one.

 

[L.Sherm]

Sleeping Giant Brass and High Plains Brass both sell 20VT brass, formed from LC, for 40 per hundred. Yet another option...

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think you have to turn there necks.

 

[varmintshooter]

I think most 20vt's have a .232 nk, I know mine do, so if you don't want to turn nk's why not get a .234 or whatever would work with your brass.

 

[GAnderson]

I think most 20vt's have a .232 nk, I know mine do, so if you don't want to turn nk's why not get a .234 or whatever would work with your brass.

Agree...I also wonder why so many stay with the .232 neck and have to end up turning necks. That is why I went with a .235 neck on my 20VT.

 

[munsonbw]

munsonbw...build a switch barrel rig. Have you a 223AI barrel and a 20VT barrel. A barrel vise and action wrench is all it takes and barrels can be switched out in a matter of minutes. Best of both worlds and your dilemma is solved.

You know, I think no matter what I choose first, I think this will happen.

 

[munsonbw]

Out of curiosity, for those running 20 VT is anyone using the Hornady dies? Any comments on their ability to produce accurate rounds? I lucked into my set of Forster Micrometers and somehow have it in my head they are soooo much better. No facts, of course, just feelings.

 

[varmintshooter]

Yes I am using hornady dies, no issues, good accuracy.

 

[Evan]

Out of curiosity, for those running 20 VT is anyone using the Hornady dies? Any comments on their ability to produce accurate rounds? I lucked into my set of Forster Micrometers and somehow have it in my head they are soooo much better. No facts, of course, just feelings.

They size the brass a bit more than is needed, but they have produced excellent results for me in all my guns.

 

[tstowater]

I normally take 5-7. I always have a backup for every loading. But since I go for a month, I have to take 7,000 rounds loaded with me.

I wish that I could do a month at a time. About all I can get away is 3 or 4 days and like to make the best out of it. Usually take a rimfire and a couple 20's and a couple 22 matching centerfires and a 6mm Remington if I think we need the distance or wind fighting. Probably have 2500 rounds along and a good pile are emptied. Started the 20VT club this year and really like what it brings to the table. The next 20 will likely be a 20 Practical. That said, the 223AI merits investigation.

 

[redrockranger]

20-223AI. If you have Redding type s 223 ai dies it will do the 20-223 AI cartridge also. Simple cartridge to load.

I like my 20 Practical a lot. Great PDog round. 1 1/2 high @ 100 yds will get you to 300 yds easily.

 

[nmkid]

This is why I like my 20 P so much. But, my new 22 Creedmoor is getting there also.