Help with Fliers please !

[SavageMark]

That is not a legal NRA Target

This is not NRA sanctioned . It’s small club level informal f class . We even get to shoot from the bench because at our age I don’t think a lot of us could get back up . Lol

 

[chkunz]

This is not NRA sanctioned . It’s small club level informal f class . We even get to shoot from the bench because at our age I don’t think a lot of us could get back up . Lol

I think that is great, do what you can to stay in the game! Best wishes, Clyde

 

[Chuckhunter]

SM, that rifle and load appear to be just fine. As a lot of members have said, they are not fliers more likely subtle condition changes. Don't let your buddy get into your head, instead, take him to the shoot and give him a spanking. Then you can point out his fliers. Keep it simple and shoot a lot. There's no substitute for trigger time.

 

[SavageMark]

SM, that rifle and load appear to be just fine. As a lot of members have said, they are not fliers more likely subtle condition changes. Don't let your buddy get into your head, instead, take him to the shoot and give him a spanking. Then you can point out his fliers. Keep it simple and shoot a lot. There's no substitute for trigger time.

Well said ! Thank you

 

[SavageMark]

I think that is great, do what you can to stay in the game! Best wishes, Clyde

Thx Clyde ! Have a great day !

 

[dolek]

Don’t think he has ever shot 20 at a target in his life . He’s an old school reloader . I think he’s just being a little hard on me actually .

I think you are right . He is probably just a little frustrated expecting his loads to make you perfect. He should actually be quite proud,just as you should be . Looks like you guys are a good team .

 

[Dgd6mm]

Black 300 yard f class target. It's a good possibility that it will work with the target your using.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You shot a clean with 75% Xs...tell your "friend" you don't need any further advice unless he can consistently score better.

 

[Liven The Dream]

View attachment 1108543 So went with Buddy today to practice at 300 yards . As u can see I shot a 200-15x on the target which should put me close to 1st place in a match. So I’m pretty happy . On the other hand my buddy is concentrating on my fliers . I think he’s asking for too much out of me and my gun . I don’t see many people keeping everything in the 10 ring . I’ve only shot one match (500) yard , 394-20x. It would have been much better if I could have seen I was shooting a little high . Anyway , opinions please ? I think he’s asking for perfection . What do u guys think ?

Thx

Mark

 

[SavageMark]

I think you are right . He is probably just a little frustrated expecting his loads to make you perfect. He should actually be quite proud,just as you should be . Looks like you guys are a good team .

Actually they are my loads . I just started reloading a few months ago and I’m hooked . Loading the 6BR is a pleasure .
My 308 just sits there now . Guess I need to buy a 6BR barrel for it .

 

[dolek]

Actually they are my loads . I just started reloading a few months ago and I’m hooked . Loading the 6BR is a pleasure .
My 308 just sits there now . Guess I need to buy a 6BR barrel for it .

Sorry I misunderstood,when he was so concerned with your "fliers" I assumed He had loaded them for you . Now that I know you loaded them...congrats,you have a great start to the reloading . Offer your friend some lessons,that will shut him up .

 

[jim_k]

That's about a 0.8 MOA group at 300 yards. The best 20-shot group I ever fired (in 50+ years of shooting competitively) was at 100 yards, and it was 0.68" indoors off a bench. Fuggedaboutit. This is as good as it gets.

 

[SavageMark]

Those aren't fliers. All of the shots are in a decent, round group.

Could the group be made smaller? Quite possibly, depending on your equipment and skill.

Equipment is Savage F class rifle . Shilen 30” 6BR no turn neck bull barrel . Sightron 10-50 scope . Bald eagle front rest and Protektor rear bag . 107smk and 30grains Varget . Skill level is shooting for about 2 years now , only shot 1 match ( 500 yard , came in 4th out of 18 ) 394-20Xs. So skill level is NEWBIE ! My ears are open for suggestions to make group smaller !

Thx

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Equipment is Savage F class rifle . Shilen 30” 6BR no turn neck bull barrel . Sightron 10-50 scope . Bald eagle front rest and Protektor rear bag . 107smk and 30grains Varget . Skill level is shooting for about 2 years now , only shot 1 match ( 500 yard , came in 4th out of 18 ) 394-20Xs. So skill level is NEWBIE ! My ears are open for suggestions to make group smaller !

A no-cost way to decrease group size (if you haven't done it already) is a seating depth test. Likewise, proper bag fill and rest setup/alignment to improve tracking are free.

On the equipment side, use wind flags (or at least a few surveyor-tape wind indicators) if you don't already. Try a custom bullet (e.g., Bart's, Vapor Trail) matched to your barrel twist, and do a full charge weight x seating depth test. Is the barrel free-floated and the action epoxy bedded? Is the trigger as light and crisp as it can be made (a weakness of the Savage for BR-type shooting)?

On the skills side, learn to read wind flags. Set up the rest/bags to produce straight tracking under recoil. Shoot free recoil or with very consistent table manners. Learn to shoot quickly but smoothly to catch a condition.

 

[SavageMark]

A no-cost way to decrease group size (if you haven't done it already) is a seating depth test. Likewise, proper bag fill and rest setup/alignment to improve tracking are free.

On the equipment side, use wind flags (or at least a few surveyor-tape wind indicators) if you don't already. Try a custom bullet (e.g., Bart's, Vapor Trail) matched to your barrel twist, and do a full charge weight x seating depth test. Is the barrel free-floated and the action epoxy bedded? Is the trigger as light and crisp as it can be made (a weakness of the Savage for BR-type shooting)?

On the skills side, learn to read wind flags. Set up the rest/bags to produce straight tracking under recoil. Shoot free recoil or with very consistent table manners. Learn to shoot quickly but smoothly to catch a condition.

You make some very good points . Im into the lands , so no seating depth test yet . I do try to align bags the best I can . Barrel is free floated , but action is not bedded . It does fit stock very well . Screws come to a dead stop when tightened . And I do use surveyors tape , when I remember . Will try your ideas ! Thank you .

 

[SavageMark]

Seating test are number two on the load development flow chart as of the last I heard.
With the optimum seating depth 6br groups get real small real quick.
For myself, fine tuning a base load is the fun part.
J

So if I’m in the lands , how much would u suggest going deeper ? .01 ? .02 ? .03 ?
Bullets are SMK 107

 

[SavageMark]

I would test 3-5 rounds at the lands then start jumping back in .005 increments to about.025 you’ll see a pattern start to reveal itself

Will do and I’ll let u know the results.

Thank you !

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I start at the jam length (max length that will chamber at the neck tension I typically use) and work back. In 35 years I've never had a cup-and-core bullet shoot better off the lands if the chamber was dialed in correctly. Depending on the ogive radius the sweet spot is usually 0.006"-0.015" off the jam, which usually works out to 0.003"-0.012" into the lands.

This is a charge x seating depth test in my 30BR (3-shot groups, 100 yards, as described by Tony Boyer in his book). Seating depth is measured by Wilson seater stem length -- longer stem means farther off the jam. Jam length was 1.737", just touching the lands (Wheeler method) was 1.754". Charge weights are 33.5-34.7gr H4198 in 0.6gr increments. For a 30BR with 6-9 ogive bullets I vary seating depth by 0.005". For 6mm or higher radius bullets I move in 0.003" increments of seating depth.

 

[foxguy]

View attachment 1108791My farm boy method looks something like this, I would add -0- then.005 to this board for your test.
I chose the least vertical.020 on this board than added powder until they tightened up,
( too much powder sends them vertical again.)

Wow,

So looking at the 0.020 horizontal group (looks to be a little over a 1" spread), you can tighten up the horizontal spread by adding powder ? Please, can you expound on this, as I would think adding powder would start giving vertical ?? Interesting.... I'm still learning about tuning loads.

Thanks

 

[SavageMark]

I would not play with my powder charge if all that testing is complete. Fine tune with seating depth. This is my .308 tuned at 300 yards with seating depth. 5 shots in that hole

But that’s only (1) 5 round group right ? Im sure your rifle doesn’t typically put them in the same hole every time u shoot !