Help - Ring Around the Bullet?
- Thread starter 686 Shooter
- Start date
Well I tried polishing the inner edge of the seating stem. I used some valve lapping compound and then polished with some Autosol (just like Flitz). While it definitely did improve it still leaves an indent on the bullet on loads that compress the powder at all. 26 grains no noticeable mark, 26.5 there it is. Like I said not near as bad but there it is.
Then jepp2's post got me thinking, this is brand new brass! I have never lubed before seating before but maybe now is the time to start.
So I figure this will be my next steps....
1st - I'm going to contact Forster to see what they say and to see if they could make me a seating stem better suited to the ogive of the ELD style bullet.
2nd - I'm going to get some graphite and try lubing the neck with it to see if it makes a difference.
3rd - I get this all figured out no compressed loads.
This hobby can be darned frustrating at times.
Then jepp2's post got me thinking, this is brand new brass! I have never lubed before seating before but maybe now is the time to start.
So I figure this will be my next steps....
1st - I'm going to contact Forster to see what they say and to see if they could make me a seating stem better suited to the ogive of the ELD style bullet.
2nd - I'm going to get some graphite and try lubing the neck with it to see if it makes a difference.
3rd - I get this all figured out no compressed loads.
This hobby can be darned frustrating at times.
Another update. I dug through a shelf and found some Lyman dry neck lube. Tried it and same thing as soon as you get to a compressed load.
Then I got thinking, are the Hornady bullets softer than others? Hogdgon says a max charge of Varget for Sierra 53 gr bullts is 27 gr. Hornady says max for their 52 grain ELD-M is 26gr. Maybe thats why they don't recommend a load over 26gr, then its compressed and causes grief????
I'm grasping at straws here. Lol
Then I got thinking, are the Hornady bullets softer than others? Hogdgon says a max charge of Varget for Sierra 53 gr bullts is 27 gr. Hornady says max for their 52 grain ELD-M is 26gr. Maybe thats why they don't recommend a load over 26gr, then its compressed and causes grief????
I'm grasping at straws here. Lol
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
just degrease the stem. It is a redneck fix for trying to make a seat stem that fits every bullet profile. About impossible considering how often bullet profiles change.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a rifle chambered in 30tc, Redding made the first die set. It will leave a ring with 165 gr sst, doesn't seem to be a performance problem(at least on elk). I am not shooting compressed loads, may have to look back at it using the suggestions above.
ronemus
Gold $$ Contributor
Your bullets are blunter than a typical for a VLD, and the stem Forster ships by default is optimized for VLDs. As others have said, you should get a custom stem from Forster, especially since you are using compressed loads that require additional seating force.
Personally, I stay away from compressed loads because they can fracture powder granules because that modifies the burn rate; the powder burns faster due to the larger exposed surface, which in turn causes pressures to rise dramatically. Lots of folks do it and get away with it, but they're eating into the safety margin designed into firearms; too much of that can lead to erratic performance and eventual failure. If I need higher velocity, I'll use a faster powder in smaller amounts to avoid compressed loads.
Personally, I stay away from compressed loads because they can fracture powder granules because that modifies the burn rate; the powder burns faster due to the larger exposed surface, which in turn causes pressures to rise dramatically. Lots of folks do it and get away with it, but they're eating into the safety margin designed into firearms; too much of that can lead to erratic performance and eventual failure. If I need higher velocity, I'll use a faster powder in smaller amounts to avoid compressed loads.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Finally, somebody realized it was a compressed load 
excellent idea. Related idea. Chuck up your bullet in a drill put some lapping compound on it and spin it in the seating steam to create a better fit.
Switch to a faster burning powder. I find IMR3031 and 52 to 53 grain deliver impressive accuracy and velocity and no crunch on seating. There are many powder choices that will work with light bullets.
I shoot 69 gr Lapua and Varget. Had to drop the charge to the next lower node as I could not move the bullet from .005 into the lands to .005 off without crunching powder and inconsistent seating depth.
Switched to the 73 gr Berger and the ogive shape allowed a much more forward seating position, more room for powder. I actually load more Varget under the 73 than the 69 and get better performance.
Had a similar experience shooting the 53 gr V-Max (you should try it) and then trying the 55 gr V-max with flat base. Ogive was much more blunt on the 55 and seated way deeper in the case at touch. Shot well with 3031 but could not use Varget without crunch.
As for seating stems, when changing to a new bullet, I pull the stem out of my die and check it for fit and switch it out if necessary. Hornaday, for instance, makes a special stem for their A-Tip bullets.
Contact your die maker about alternate seating stems, or modify one of yours, or have one modified as others have suggested.
You can bed a stem just like you would a stock using Epoxy or some of the more stout hot glues, though I haven't tried hot glue. But if your brass has a few cycles on them, the issue may have more to do with seating pressure due to hardened brass. Annealing may help.
As you can see, there are a lot of factors that contribute to deforming bullets during seating.
I shoot 69 gr Lapua and Varget. Had to drop the charge to the next lower node as I could not move the bullet from .005 into the lands to .005 off without crunching powder and inconsistent seating depth.
Switched to the 73 gr Berger and the ogive shape allowed a much more forward seating position, more room for powder. I actually load more Varget under the 73 than the 69 and get better performance.
Had a similar experience shooting the 53 gr V-Max (you should try it) and then trying the 55 gr V-max with flat base. Ogive was much more blunt on the 55 and seated way deeper in the case at touch. Shot well with 3031 but could not use Varget without crunch.
As for seating stems, when changing to a new bullet, I pull the stem out of my die and check it for fit and switch it out if necessary. Hornaday, for instance, makes a special stem for their A-Tip bullets.
Contact your die maker about alternate seating stems, or modify one of yours, or have one modified as others have suggested.
You can bed a stem just like you would a stock using Epoxy or some of the more stout hot glues, though I haven't tried hot glue. But if your brass has a few cycles on them, the issue may have more to do with seating pressure due to hardened brass. Annealing may help.
As you can see, there are a lot of factors that contribute to deforming bullets during seating.
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
Will the brownells bore paste work as a lapping compound for a bullet to open up a Wilson seating stem? Mine is leaving very faint, but noticeable marks on 109s:
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yes but it will take alot longer. You can get valve lapping compound in a small tube for not much money over in the jb weld/ epoxy/ rtv section at your local auto parts store.
TylerFromMS
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks much!
You mentioned compressing the powder that can definitely cause the issue you’re having you also said it is new brass after its fire formed you may be able to use the same amount of powder without it being a compressed load just something else to consider
Wondering, what was the reason for this, was there a problem with your lee dies or was it based off community hype about the forster? Did you by new dies after noticing Eric and Gavin are using specifically that micrometer seating die, or were the lee dies simply not performing?
Have you shot anything loaded with the new setup? If so how do the new groups compare to what you were seeing before?
Have considered adding the seating die to my setup as well to replace the lee, though I have never had trouble with it the micrometre option gives for easier adjustment.
Would hate to wait a month for it to arrive just to find out that it causes more damage than good due to this seating stem fitment and that it will take another wait on mail to get this thing working as the lee did out of the box. $200 later and 2 months of waiting does it do the job that much better?
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This is the worst case scenario posted on this site maybe 15 years back, showing a badly chamfered neck and the result on the bullet.
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