Help Picking a 7mm

[Nomad47]

Someone else mentioned a switch barrel. And if you own a Savage .243 and have a $1000 budget, that makes the most sense.
.284 Criterion barrel from Jim Briggs - $350
Tools to switch barrels - under $100
.284 and .243 go gauges - $70
.284 die set - $150
7mm bullets and brass - $230
Total $900

I live in a motorhome so space is a premium. Because of space issues, I have two Savage actions and four barrels. Life is good. ;D

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Can someone please help me understand the .284. I have absolutely no knowledge of this caliber. What would be its two closest cousins. Seems huge when the .270 is a decent long range gun.

How is the .260 diferent than the .243?

Thank you...another sleepless night.

 

[Nomad47]

The .284 has the same case capacity as the 30-06 but the case is shorter therefore fatter. It is considered a "short action" case although when loaded with a long bullet such as a 180 Berger Hybrid, it is better suited to long actions. The .284 is popular with the 1000 yard shooters. I had a Savage Target (short) Action fitted with a .284 barrel (also a 6XC barrel) and shot the 180 Berger Hybrids. The only issue I had was I had to remove the bolt to remove a loaded round.

The .260 is a necked up .243 or a necked down .308 and it shoots 6.5mm bullets.

Here's a photo for you. .284 Winchester and 180 Berger Hybrid.

 

[DennisH]

A 284 Winchester with a 1:9 twist barrel and enough freebore to get the big bullets out into the neck would be a great choice.

+one, I love my 284 and it's throated for the 180 Bergers. PERFECT

 

[sailhertoo]

A 7 RSAUM is hard to beat.

 

[Laurie]

How is the .260 diferent than the .243?

They share the same (.308 Win) basic case with only slight differences. The 'family' comprises:

.243 Win
.260 Rem
7mm-08 Rem
.308 Win
.338 Federal
.358 Win (dead in the water)

The sole missing calibre (as a factory option) is .270, although P.O. Ackley described it as a fine performer in his round-up of wildcats.

All use the same case from the shoulders down, have the same shoulder angle, but the changes needed to accept smaller / larger calibre bullets obviously see different neck diameter dimensions, and also produce small variations in neck length.

By using different calibre and weight-range bullets, different performance characteristics, usable ranges, sizes of quarry etc can be catered for.

The .260 and 7mm-08 started out a wildcats both for deerhunting and competition. Both were ideal for Metallic Silhouettes competition when it was big some years back, being light recoiling, very accurate and providing the knock-down factor for heavy silhouettes at 500 metres. Subsequently, the .260 and its higher performance Ackley Improved version have become very popular in tactical and sniper competitions as well as club-level F-Class.

Many people reckon the pair are amongst the two best choices for small to medium deer, especially in light or featherweight rifles such as the Remington Model 7.

For long-range F-Class, both are outperformed at long ranges (800 yards and up) by the .284 Win case based pair - 6.5-284 Norma and .284 Win itself, plus still larger cased 7mm cartridges, the Rem SAUM and WSM short magnums. They will both perform very well indeed though in a suitably high-quality rifle and barrel even at 1,000 yards, but bullets move more in wind changes.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Thanks for the info. Please give me more...

If I have a .243 is it really worth getting a 260?

What about the 6.5 Creedmore, 6.8 spf, Sweede, Grendel, etc. How do they compare to the 260, etc.?

 

[mao0720]

A 260 will give you better barrel life than a 243, and not much else. You will gain a little BC over the 243 if you shoot the 139/140gr 6.5 bullets, and velocity will most likely be slower with everything except a 107 SMK (which will be faster in the 260 given that both rounds are loaded to the same pressure.

The 6.5 creedmoor is essentially the same as a 260 rem in terms of ballistics, you can get it 100 FPS faster or so with good loading. Almost Identical in performance to a 260 AI
6.8 SPC is not a long range round and does not have enough gas to go the distance, I think you would be hard pressed to keep it accurate to 600yds let alone 1000
The sweede really needs to be used in a long action to take advantage of the extra powder capacity
the 6.5 grendel is essentially a 6.5 PPC. And while it is a great little round for AR15 I think that there are better choices for a bolt gun.

Of the Cartridges you just listed I would put them in this order:
6.5 creedmoor (beats 243 only because of barrel life)
260 rem (same reason as above)
243 (great ballistics, hard on barrels)
6.5 sweede
6.5 grendel (efficient little cartridge, you could push it harder in a bolt gun than in an AR but I still think performance would be lacking.
6.8 spc (dont even bother with it)

 

[Nomad47]

If the OP is considering a switch barrel for his Savage (which is the cheapest way to get into a 7mm) then we should also mention the bolt face differences.
The .243 uses a .473 bolt face as well as obviously the entire family of .308 case based cartridges. The pair based on the .284 case also use the .473 bolt face. But the short mags would require a bolt face change.

Changing barrels that use the barrel nut is really simple and easy. I live in motorhome and change barrels at a picnic table. And if a picnic table is not available, I use my portable shooting/reloading bench.

 

[Laurie]

If you carry on shooting at your present rate (500 rounds in a month), barrel life and budget will soon become major issues. 243W usually sees barrel performance collapse at around 2,000 rounds, and that's complete collapse, the edge coming off accuracy well before.

As noted the smaller 6.5s improve its life considerably, 7mm-08 even more so, and .308 Win more still. That's one of the reasons that 308 continues to be so popular. With the right chamber / throating allied to good bullet choice, its long-range performance is remarkably good, but you also get 3,500 to 7,000 rounds use from a barrel depending on factors like bullet weight / type of powder / pressures being generated / rapid or slowfire use.

 

[DanConzo]

Sounds like the problem is trying to get ONE rifle to do almost everything and then hand it over to your grandson and a little 30-06 vs 270 thing. To do all these things with one rifle is a rifleman's dream. You will always lose something to gain something. Switch barrel with two different calibers sounds like a good option.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I'd stick to a 6MM cartridge, such as a 6MM Competition Match with a 105-115 grain bullet with great barrel life and accuracy, which is what I mostly shoot. 2nd choice would be a 6MM SLR with 105-115, with good barrel life, good accuracy. Like Nomad47 said, switch barrel. I have a super shooting 7saum, never shoot it because of my 6CM's. If you are still wanting to pick a Seven look hard at the .284, that will be my next one.

 

[Nomad47]

hey Don, what is the case capacity on the 6CM?

 

[Dgd6mm]

Bill, I honestly do not remember what the H2O is. I'd have to look it up in the old post from Joe Hendricks. I shoot Winchester brass in mine. I had some Lapua, but changed over to all Winchester.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Why have I never heard of the 6CM until this thread? I looked for it in my Hornady Manual and could only find these?

6 x 47 mm
6 mm PPC
6 mm Bench Rest Remington
6 mm Remington
6 mm-284​

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Are you referring to Joe Hendricks from PA? My son was on the Steel Eagles State Service Rifle team with a guy by that name. He learned a lot and had a great time then something happened and the team disappeared...we never got any explanation. Just wondering if that is the guy...

 

[TonyR]

Are you referring to Joe Hendricks from PA? My son was on the Steel Eagles State Service Rifle team with a guy by that name. He learned a lot and had a great time then something happened and the team disappeared...we never got any explanation. Just wondering if that is the guy...

If I remember correctly, there were a couple of sling shooters by that name, a father and son, at Reade Range for the Remington/Bushmaster Match last weekend.

 

[SEB-USA]

SC,
How many rounds do you think you will put down range on average, either per month or per year with new set-up since you will still have your 243 Win? Will the total rounds per month likely stay the same with two guns?
Increase/Decrease?
I am a fan of good solid bottomed muzzle brakes myself. I am more of a hunter and a field shooter than I am a competitor.
If you intend to hunt at mid-range distances, I strongly encourage you to get off of the bench and into field positions for practice, once load development is done. Then start practicing out to and beyond your max hunting distance in bad conditions like high and switchy winds with target sizes being similar to the game animals vitals you will hunt. These conditions will tell you just how good you are in that condition. Still practice in good conditions too, realizing you will not always have them when that animal shows up.

Although it is not my favorite cartridge, the 308 Win works great out to your max distance-500 yards.
with the 168 A-Max. The draw to the 308 Win is its throat life, and it is still very capable at your max.

As you keep the same case size/powder capability your throat/barrel life will lessen as you go down in caliber.

Hence, the 7-08 (162 A-Max) and various 6.5's in the same (260 Rem) or similar that case ranges are being recommend.
The distances you are considering would be call mid-range by many here.

For LR hunting, I lean toward the 7mm over the 6.5 myself, but I also tend to shoot further.
For me the advantage of the 7 is less wind drift with the higher BC bullets that work good on game.

"There are a lot of ways to skin the cat."
You just need to decide what you really want to go with, realizing the faster you go, the more you are paying for components and a shorter barrel life in that caliber you are considering.
You have already mentioned budget.
Check out what it will cost per month to feed this rig once you get it and approximately in how many rounds you will be replacing the barrel.

I have taken game out to your max hunting distance with the the rifle performance level or further with: 6XC/243 Win, 6.5x47 Lapua, 260 Rem, and the 6.5-284 or 6.5-06, 7-08, 284 Winchester, and 280AI or a tad larger. I use 6.5's and 7's for the majority of my big game hunting.
I tend to shoot shorter barrel lengths than most do, so that is why I listed a cartridge equivalent.

Like I and others have mentioned, the 308 Win is capable (didn't say the best) at the distances you are looking at.
It will have a long throat life for sure. I guess I would lean toward the 7-08 using the 162-A-Max first. To me it is a compromise between throat life and better BC's, plus it works great on game. Compare the BC of the 30 cal 168 A-Max and the 7mm 162 A-Max in the 308 Win and the 7-08.

I would have shot further with this set-up, but last October on a antelope, using a 308 Win with the 168 A-Max with a 14 inch barrel from the sitting position at 350 yards. I practiced out to 600 yards in the sitting position, with several different specialty pistols in preparation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFafJpKGCMs
There is more to say on this topic, but this is a good start.

 

[antitactical]

So you've got a .243. They will shoot out to 1000yds with good bullets. So you've got a 1000yd paper puncher.If I was going to build a long range hunter I would use a big 7mm. The 180 Berger vld has a great b.c. and you will have to get up in the 240gr area on a .30cal to beat it and then recoil isn't very fun unless the gun weighs 20lbs. A plain rem mag will easily push a 180 2900fps and that will cleanly kill any north American animal past 800yds ( and that's a long shot while hunting). I also say go with a muzzlebrake. It will lessen the felt recoil considerably and you should be able to spot hits out past 500-600yds. If its easier on the shoulder its easier to shoot. Easier to shoot means more confidence and better shooting. You're dumb as rock salt if you shoot without proper hearing protection so I wouldn't listen to the " they are too loud and they kick up dust crowd" if they want something quiet go back to a slingshot.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Wow...I think I found some 7mm fans out there...I was beginning to have my serious doubts about this cartridge based on the prior responses.

Hey, here is my deal. I live in Pennsylvania so I should say I am looking to be a medium range shooter. Shooting beyond 500 yards here is unheard of. I anticipate that the .243 I have sighted in will not hit the 1,000 round mark for a couple years as it will be used mostly for woodchucks, coyote which are rare here, and maybe a deer or two if I am lucky a year.

Actually, I have a 30.06 for deer but found I just enjoy the .243 for deer hunting. Here is my deal. Last year I shot three big PA coyotes with my .17 Rem. Fireball. All chest shots at night and all coyotes lost. Did kill one with the fireball but it took two shots. I am sure all the yotes were killed but when they are able to run at night after being shot a few hundred yards they are not recoverable. Hey, I kill tons of red fox and chucks with the .17 Fireball. I very much love the gun. Just do not feel it is something to shoot a coyote in the dark with. So here is what happened....

I decided I would get a .223 Rem. bolt gun for yotes since I already load for my son's AR for service rifle. A friend convinced me to use the .243 for coyotes. I sold my .243 Savage Weather Warrior and got the Model 10 Predator Max. My goal was to shoot two bullets...one for coyotes and one for deer.

I found my gun to be a pia and very picky thus it took me so many shots. After lots of research and talking to the bullet smiths, I decided on the 70 MK with a low dose of Varget for reduced hide damage. This bullet shoots great now that I found the sweet spot.

Deer bullet I went with the 85 TSX because all I read is that it is the miracle bullet. doesn't shoot great for me...five shot groups of 1 1/4" at 100 yards. However, at the price of these bullets I do not want to shoot a few hundred so I am settled on it. Chances are I will never shoot a deer in PA past 300 yards so while not ideal I think it is good enough.

Anyway, doing all this tinkering and reloading everyday and shooting was a ton of fun. I could reload alone in my man cave quietly for eternity. So, I don't have much money but when I get some I just thought I would like to continue my hobby and was just enjoying pondering what my next gun would be. To me in Pennsylvania a .243 is the Western guys 7mm. I just figured if my next gun was a 7mm it could do pretty much everything. Then I started reading guys on here and they seemed to steer me away from this caliber. So, the .260 Rem. started looking good to me as did what guys were saying on the Joe Hendricks 6mm caliber. Just don't know if these still make sense if I already have a .243 or if they are pretty much the same think. Also wondering if I could load them down for coyotes like I did with the .243.

I am enjoying hearing everybody's advice and right now my mind is wide open with no preconceived notions. I'd like to know what more experienced people would advise me. I am mostly a hunter but I am having so much fun tinkering with different load in the .243 that I think I am evolving into one of you guys.