Is this gun bad for long range shooting?

[BigDMT]

I am an informal target shooter. (ie; I seek 1/4" MOA, but don't engage in competiton shooting)
I own both varmint and AR precision rifles, and I only use Bushnell mil-dot 4200's on my rifles! The center crosshairs of the Bushnell mil-dot scopes are very fine and very useable for 100-200 target shooting. The dots are not overly large either. The mil-dots provide a reference point for windage on windy days, especially useful for long distance shooting. (...but it's 2nd focal plane and not to be used at full magnification) Bushnell is the only scope maker that I have seen that has a fine enough reticule for precision shooting. But no, mil-dot reticules are still not considered for "target". I use mine primarilly for long distance varmint shooting.....not long distance target shooting.

My Elite Side-Focus 4200's are an older 1" tubed model that has been discontinued 3 years ago. It is a better scope in clearity then my 30mm tubed "tactical" 4200 mil-dot scope, and is a better scope in clearity then the 6500. The only busnell scope I would buy now to replace it is the older 1" 4200 elite they currently sell that does NOT have side focus. It's a longer length scope too (too long!) with old fashioned front AO. It has minimal elevation adjustment. But it can also be bought new for $437!!......and it still has that great Bushnell mil-dot reticle, and great optic clearity like the old Bausch and Lomb scopes and like my old 1" SF 4200 scopes. If I wanted clearity and good light gathering in a shorter length scope with a side focus, then I'd step up to a Zeiss conquest. I will NOT buy a 6500, as after owning the better 1" tubed 4200 elites, why go down in optical quality?

I agree with your statement on windage use for the mildot reticle. That's all I use my mildot reticles for. I don't have any trouble with "clutter" from the mildot either. I know the mildots on cheaper scopes can be very thick and bothersom, but Bushnell makes a very nice streamlined mildot. Nothing to complain about with either of my Elite scopes

As for the glass, I believe the 4200 and 6500 are the same exact glass. Difference is 4200 is 4x magnification and 6500 is 6.5x mag. 6500 = 6.5x see? I have an older 4200 1" tube scope as well in 6-24x40mm on my Ruger M77 tang 6mm Remington. Got it in brand new condition for only $325 a couple years ago Now looking through both side by side, I can't see a difference in the glass. Maybe that's just me, maybe I got a 6500 with better glass, I don't know. Both have excellent clarity and brightness for the money. If anything, my 6500 is brighter on identical powers due to the 50mm objective and 30mm tube.

I chose the 6500 for my latest rifle because I can use 4.5x in close quarters hunting in wooded areas, then turn around and zoom into 30x for long range shots on the prairie. And the 4200s can't provide 70+ moa of elevation so that was another huge deciding factor for me. Of course the side focus is a must for me. AOs are just a pain. I thing the 6500 is the most versatile scope for the money. Next best "reliable"scope with that magnification range is a probably a Swarovski (I know there's some others out ther) and you can sure bet you're gonna pay for it

I never spend a ton of money on rifle scopes ecause a person doesn't need a $2000+ scope to make a good shot on animals. Id rather spend that money on the glass to find them in the first place ie; binos and spotters. The extra money really pays off there

 

[stinnett1981]

DO NOT buy a scope, any scope with a MilDot(MRAD) reticle with MOA knobs, I also recommend FFP, MRAD reticle with .1MRAD knobs is about as simple a system a long range hunter can use, whether 2 legs or 4.

Yes I agree. I forgot to mention milrad reticle with .1 knobs. The one I have is bushnell elite tacticle 6-24x50 FFP milrad that is illuminated with .1 knobs. It is the best scope on the market for the money. My nightforce is clearer when cranked up at far distances. Other than that its a tie

 

[BigDMT]

If your gonna buy a Bushnell Elite with a mil dot reticle then get the FFP. Not gaving the FFP with a mil dot reticle is like having a new HD 240hz 3D TV and only having basic cable. You can truly use the mil dot when its FFP.

It doesn't bother me having SFP because I don't range with the reticle. I save that chore for my Leica 1600 LRF

Don't like how the reticle grows and gets thicker with FFP scopes either. Covers up more of the target when shooting long range at max power. Just my personal preference though.

 

[stinnett1981]

If your gonna buy a Bushnell Elite with a mil dot reticle then get the FFP. Not gaving the FFP with a mil dot reticle is like having a new HD 240hz 3D TV and only having basic cable. You can truly use the mil dot when its FFP.

It doesn't bother me having SFP because I don't range with the reticle. I save that chore for my Leica 1600 LRF

Don't like how the reticle grows and gets thicker with FFP scopes either. Covers up more of the target when shooting long range at max power. Just my personal preference though.

That is true. Its not a great scope for precision target shooting at long ranges. With mine at 100 yards cranked up to 24 power the the middle of the reticle will almost cover a dime. At farther distances it will completely cover a dime. It doesnt bother me though. I can still shoot tight groups with it. Its not a scope for benchrest shooter. It is a awesome scope for about anything else though! Alot of people say they dont need or want a FFP because they dont want to calculate distances, but thats not all you can do with it. When you have target or multiple targets set up at different known distances you can use the mil dots on the scope to adjust for bullet drop at any power because its FFP. I enjoy setting up different types of targets at different distances and making 5 shots on 5 different targets in under 20 seconds. Some people think that is silly, but I enjoy it. Its fun unloading a clip then looking up and seeing 5 gongs from 100 yards out to 600 yards all swinging at the same time. I have used my scope to calculate distances before. It does work if you can guess how tall what you are shooting or something next to what you are shooting. I would really like to find some type of bolt action tactical shooting competitions somewhere.

 

[BigDMT]

If your gonna buy a Bushnell Elite with a mil dot reticle then get the FFP. Not gaving the FFP with a mil dot reticle is like having a new HD 240hz 3D TV and only having basic cable. You can truly use the mil dot when its FFP.

It doesn't bother me having SFP because I don't range with the reticle. I save that chore for my Leica 1600 LRF

Don't like how the reticle grows and gets thicker with FFP scopes either. Covers up more of the target when shooting long range at max power. Just my personal preference though.

That is true. Its not a great scope for precision target shooting at long ranges. With mine at 100 yards cranked up to 24 power the the middle of the reticle will almost cover a dime. At farther distances it will completely cover a dime. It doesnt bother me though. I can still shoot tight groups with it. Its not a scope for benchrest shooter. It is a awesome scope for about anything else though! Alot of people say they dont need or want a FFP because they dont want to calculate distances, but thats not all you can do with it. When you have target or multiple targets set up at different known distances you can use the mil dots on the scope to adjust for bullet drop at any power because its FFP. I enjoy setting up different types of targets at different distances and making 5 shots on 5 different targets in under 20 seconds. Some people think that is silly, but I enjoy it. Its fun unloading a clip then looking up and seeing 5 gongs from 100 yards out to 600 yards all swinging at the same time. I have used my scope to calculate distances before. It does work if you can guess how tall what you are shooting or something next to what you are shooting. I would really like to find some type of bolt action tactical shooting competitions somewhere.

That would be fun I've often thought of learning the milradian system, but just never got around to it. I'm sure an experienced milrad operator would be very deadly in the field. Even on long range shots that require quick reaction from the shooter. Such as an animal moving across a small opening from cover to cover.

I know there are many tactical competitions out there from reading various magazines, but not familiar with times or locations. I'm sure a tactical competition would be a very fun experience

 

[BigDMT]

for half the pric a Thompson center venture shoots as good .imho

+1 - X10!!!

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

I was really getting interested in this scope but my worry is that the ZPlex 20 recticle is way to thick for long range shooting with the target turrets. It is second plane if that matters.

CONQUEST HD5 Riflescopes
3-15x42



Maybe I would just do better with this one with Recticle 43?

Conquest 4.5-14x50 A0 MC


Which would you pick and why?

 

[BigDMT]

HD5 offers WAY more elevation adjustment and greater magnification range. Supposed to have better glass than the original conquest too, but I have not looked thru one yet.

I have shot a rifle at 600 yards with the Rapid Z reticle and it was very fine. Did not obscure target at all.

Worrying about a "thick" reticle in upper mid priced scopes is needless. I expect your worries come from experience with $100-$300 scopes that disappointed you with reticles that were too thick? You won't find that problem in scopes costing $600-$700 and up.

 

[Trapper243]

I was not going to say a thing, but, with all the replies what the heck. My 2 cents. Don't buy the Tikka or the Bushnell. Save your penny's, even if it takes a while. Pick up a Nightforce with MOA reticle and get a gun with a good barrel. Have one built by a good smith, Or, If you just have to have one right now, Surgeon Rifles has some 6.5s for sale that will probably exceed all of your expectations.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Here is where the Zeiss confused me...

The Zrapid recticles seem great for not using a target turret. Very fine lines and lots of aiming points.

It looked to me that for getting the target turrets a guy would not want a rapid recticle with all the marks since he would be dialing.

It looked like the only crosshair "normal" recticle they were offering on this scope on their web site was their 20 plex or something, which has huge outside crosshairs that I would not think appropriate for a long range scope.

However, when I leave their web site and go to sellers I see it in a finer crosshair version.

 

[VaniB]

........and get a gun with a good barrel. Have one built by a good smith, Or, If you just have to have one right now, Surgeon Rifles has some 6.5s for sale that will probably exceed all of your expectations.

I will not get into a back & forthe debate about scopes, as I think you already have enough good opinions here on this thread, but I will agree with Trapper about rifles;

When I had my first custom rifle and barrel built by a smith, I was hooked forever and sold EVERY FACTORY REMINGTON 700 THAT I OWNED. Now I only buy a new Rem 700 just so I am able to provide a stainless receiver to my smith when I am ready for a new rifle to be built. (I just prefer stainless receivers over black or blue) Once you go from shooting 5 shot 3/4" , 1" or 1 1/4" groups with the factory rifle, to 1/4" -1/2" groups almost instantly, you'll never want to mess with factory rifles again.....that is if premium accuracy is your game. I was astounded when I was sighting in my first custom smithed Remington rifle at the 50 yard range, and thought that 2 out of the first 3 shots were not going onto the paper at all. (I prefer to start sight-in at 50 yards, and then finish sight-in at 100 yards) The 3 "fouler cartridge" shots were going into one hole in the 1's before I realized what was happening. That rifle shoots 5 shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards fairly commonly.....and 3/8" groups easily. I'm not saying that you can't find a factory rifle that might shoot 1/2" groups......but why mess spending the money and time to find out? Good name brand rifles like Tikka are not cheap! When I buy a new $800 fluted stainless 308 Remington rifle, it's a popular caliber and I can sell the unfired barrel, stock, and trigger right out of the box to get the cost of the receiver down to about $550-$600. The very precision custom receivers are way too expensive for my blood (and my income), as you are starting out already at about $1000 just for a receiver. That's just my personal taste and wallet. But I wish I had known this 30 years earlier and not have wasted all that time and money seeking 1/4" MOA groups with factory rifles and junk reloading tools.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Man I'd love to get a rifle like you describe. How much does it cost? I asked my smith if he could build me a custom gun as reasonable as possible and he said $1,800 so that would be about $2,000 and just don't have that money now.

Who made your rifle and what are the different components becides the stainless action you mentioned.

 

[Trapper243]

It may not cost all that much if you already have a suitable rifle that you can put a good barrel on. I have had some monumental battles trying to get factory guns to shoot. I am just not going to do that anymore. It Cost a lot of money in time, powder , bullets, etc... I would rather spend that money on good barrels, so I can spend my time enjoying a rifle.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

I have a regular old Savage Model 11 from the pre accutrigger and pre accustock days in 30.06.

I'd like to keep my CDL SF and Savage Model 10 guns.

 

[brian427cobra]

Skip the full blown custom, spend big bucks on glass first, I'll take a 3000 dollar scope and 100 dollar surplus rifle any day over a custom rifle with a POS Ziess Conquest, yes I consider the Conquest line junk.

 

[Trapper243]

Skip the full blown custom, spend big bucks on glass first, I'll take a 3000 dollar scope and 100 dollar surplus rifle any day over a custom rifle with a POS Ziess Conquest, yes I consider the Conquest line junk.

I am just the opposite and would rather have an old set of iron sights over a good barrel than expensive glass over a bad barrel.

 

[BigDMT]

Skip the full blown custom, spend big bucks on glass first, I'll take a 3000 dollar scope and 100 dollar surplus rifle any day over a custom rifle with a POS Ziess Conquest, yes I consider the Conquest line junk.

No way. Waste of money. Nobody needs a $3000 scope to make a good accurate shot when hunting. $3K on binos and a spotter? Sure. But not a scope. Think about how much time you spend looking through a rifle scope in the field. It's not much.

And a $3K scope won't do JACK for you if you don't have a good gun that shoots well. If you decide to build a custom rifles, put your money there. The scopes you have inquired about will make that gun shoot as good as any other optic. And that is not my opinion, that is a fact.

 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

You guys are a tough crowd.

I ordered the Tikka in 7mm-08 and will top it with a Viper Vortex in 4-16-50 , Zeiss CD5 5-25-50, or some Bushnell variant I guess.

 

[stinnett1981]

If a scope holds zero, tracks perfect, has clear bright glass, is durable and the company will back up the warranty....then its a good scope. The difference between my Elite Tactical and NXS is the glass is clearer and has better eye relief on the NXS. Other than that they both function perfect. The NXS has MANY more reticles to choose from too. If GA Precision puts Elite Tacticals on thier $5000 custom .308's then they are good enough for me. Also watch these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCUZmH8n8g0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGBYzbnSYGE

 

[BigDMT]

If a scope holds zero, tracks perfect, has clear bright glass, is durable and the company will back up the warranty....then its a good scope.

Well said stinnett

Seeking_Coyotes: The Vortex is probably the lowest quality glass in that list, but the very best warranty of the 3 scopes by far (no fault, no questions asked, no receipt needed, no registration, fully transferable to any owner for the life of the optic). Not that the Vortex doesn't have very good glass, just not as bright on high powers as the other 2 scopes on your list, assuming you are talking about the Bushnell Elite series of course. The Bushnell Elite's aren't much better than the Vortex viper, but they are noticeably a little bit brighter on all powers with a very slight edge on sharpness.The Zeiss is probably gonna have the best glass of the 3 scopes hands down. But ALL 3 scopes are good choices for an accurate reliable rifle. You won't be disappointed with any of them.