Help Needed with Precision .22LR

[garandman]

I still find it interesting the first shot of every group of a single range session goes high.

How does the bullet know its the first one heading toward a new bullseye?

Seems like the shooter coming off the rifle, moving to a new bull, and some unsettledness in the rifle / rest / range bags.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

Maybe the pressure of the 5th round in the mag is causing the problem. Damaging the first round or some other issue. Try loading only 4 rounds in the mag and see what happens

This might be something. Try loading 4 rounds and putting them on target

 

[Medic505]

I have a Anschutz MPR that will throw a flier the first round out of a 10 round magazine every time. Load 9 and it shoots great, load 10 and I'll guarantee the first one isn't going where you want it to. I just don't load 10 in it. Crazy as it sounds that fixed the problem. And, I wish I knew why. 5 round mags aren't affected.

I have 2- 10 round mags and they both do the same thing.

 

[kuraki]

This might be something. Try loading 4 rounds and putting them on target

I had a Savage 64 that if you weren't particularly careful loading the mag, the built in feed ramp would shave the bullet as you loaded it, particularly as the magazine got full since it became harder to depress.

 

[JMayo]

I shoot bench rest rim fire with a custom built xiii w/ shillen barrel.
From cold barrel I expect "not on the dot" gotta coat the barrel with several shots at d sighter.

If you"ll shoot and snatch the bolt out, look down barrel and watch the vapor die down.

I have found that to shoot in a rhythm of shots produce better results for me. Rifles like the vapor at certain levels or not any at all.

When I clean the first shot is an inch high. They start coming in around 10 or so sighters.

 

[davidjoe]

edit: I thought you meant the top shot in the group was the “flyer”. Now I see what you mean, - the shot far above each group. That’s more than I expect from a sitting barrel or repositioned rifle, but, I do still get some of that with 12 pound target rifles.

Just a hint of wind will make a .22 group at 100 that size, with good ammo like CenterX and a target rifle. To me, those groups don’t necessarily look problematic.

It’s really tough to make big horizontal target to target moves, and not have a flyer when the rifle resettles itself. At club matches we have countless discussions about whether moving vertically down a 25 target page and up to the next column, is better than shooting across a row, then moving down to the next row, for that reason.

My heavy target rifles that I use at 50 and 100 tend to put first round out of the group as well. I believe this a common phenomenon as most .22 target disciplines print ample sighter targets near every line of record disks, so that you can shoot sighters regardless of which direction you work the target.

 

[jlmurphy]

The changing magazine pressure against the bottom of the bolt can affect the shot. I watched a fellow competitor string the shots from his Savage rifle with a new detachable box magazine, vertically from full to empty. The rifle had previously grouped very well. Try single loading.

 

[AICS308]

I had the same type issue years ago shooting a 308 and GM Feds. Range was 1000 yards. About 2 or 3 rounds out of 60 would hit at the very outside ring at 12 o’clock. Then back to 10 ring.

I also noticed a few times in the match I had trouble chambering a round. When the light finally came on I finally connected the two issues. The rounds that I had problems chambering were the round that went high every time.

Maybe with a full mag the spring pressure Is deforming the first round.

 

[DGP4]

Aside from the flyers, those groups seem to show vertical shot dispersion. I would check your hold and trigger operation. Try a light hold with a trigger pinch and see how the groups change. I have a CZ that will do that unless all I do is contact the trigger very lightly.

 

[JSH]

Thanks to the OP for asking about this.
I have the same rifle and see some similarities, but not that extreme on the flyer. I load 10 most times and go.
I asked a few folks about tuning the 22RF@50. Will the tune still be good at 100 and beyond?

Curious to the one response above on the flyers if the barrel is carbon fiber. Mine is btw.

I have some things to look at myself now.
thanks gents

 

[jlmurphy]

My post about the Savage and mag pressure wasn't about bullet deformation, it was the pressure on the bolt causing it to align differently each shot. Bench rest actions are very tight with respect to alignment. I braze a ring at the back of my commercial actions to improve fit and prevent tipping the locking lugs. The Savage actions are more accurate because the bolt head is loose, allowing greater contact with the receiver lugs. My AR10 would spray the shots until I brazed buttons on the bolt, eliminating excessive bolt clearance in the receiver, now it is easily a sub 1/2 MOA rifle, the short AR bolt is especially prone to tipping from mag pressure.

 

[SST2500]

My best guess is it's a magazine feed issue. I have seen it happen with a fully loaded 10 round magazine in my Vudoo as well as my CZ. The pressure from the loaded rounds below the initial round can cause the bullets to be scraped as they are fed from the magazine. I have also seen issues with the Vudoo magazines where you MUST make sure that the rear case lip of each loaded round is forward of the round below it or you will encounter feeding issues from the magazine. Most of these issues have raised their ugly heads during NRL 22 matches. Try single feeding. I'll bet it will clear up your flyers.

 

[SavageFTR]

Maybe barrel temperature?

 

[Papa Charlie]

It sounds like excessive spring tension in the magazine from a fully loaded mag. Problem goes away after the first round, which would result in less spring tension on the remaining rounds. Test by loading one less round to see if it continues or not. If that solves the problem you can either continue to load one less round, find a different spring with less tension or trim the current spring to reduce pressure.

 

[skeeljc]

It is a ten round mag loaded with only five rounds for each group.

I cannot find a single shot adapter so I guess I will have to make one.

I will say this about the Bergara B14R, I have put around 500 rounds through it and it has never miss fed.

 

[old_heli_logger]

Try cycling your 5 loaded rounds from the magazine through the action and examine the rounds after they come out. Check for lead shaving.
Good luck

 

[Hunting 2019]

Bed your recoil lug,J B weld works fine.Use a release agent! Take the sling studs out.
Doubt it's mag related try 6 or 10 to see if it continues.

 

[Hunting 2019]

Maybe not the best job,but it's tighter than dicks hat band !

 

[SCL]

I shot these three groups back-to-back today. Note the flyer in each group at 12:00. The flyer was always the first shot. I cannot figure what the cause is.

The rifle is a Bergara B14R with a Harrell tuner. The ammo was Lapua Center-X. Distance was 100 yards. The groups were shot from a front rest and a rear bag.

View attachment 1273817

I have found that using ammo that is standard velocity (just a few ft per second over subsonic- 1025fps?) with my CZ452 gives me the best groups. Less flyers. Kinda like a slow pitch softball pitcher. You get arc, but it drops in beautifully. I don't know what Lapua center x velocity is. I use Fiochi standard 40gr. It is cheap. Not premium ammo, but get quarter sized groups at 100 yards on a consistent basis.

 

[skeeljc]

Lapua Center-X is rated at 1073 fps. The speed of sound at my location is 1100 fps.