Hard time choosing a barrel & chamber reamer: long range M14 clone

[Mr. Ten-X]

Craig, the guys that took 1st and 3rd in the Palma rifle division are both long dead. The first to cancer and the other to a car wreck.

Ken Erdman was our Palma team adjutant in '99 and died something like ten years ago?

 

[Rtheurer]

Grant and Craig
Check this out. Looking at your post from the Palma Results in 93' I see that WO3 Wood placed up there in the top. Remember going back onto this thread how we pulled our M14's out of mothballs and shot them at 1000 yards. I believe that Captain Freeman is used Cheif Woods old rifle from this era to win the Service rifle National Championship this last year... When you got a good one... You got a good one.
Billy C had his own rifle at that time if im not mistaken.

Nice Post Grant...Pretty neat.

RussT

 

[cdparker]

Sorry to drag this along but I just noticed #13 Mike Henley. He used to be a gold miner up here. When they closed the mine that he worked at, he retrained as a mine inspector. His wife Melony was a good M14 shooter also. I still have my gun. It's a hammer.
Craig

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

My M14 is long gone. It had a McMillan stock that beat me to death. I would have a very fat lip after shooting that rifle. It really took a lot of focus to make that trigger go by total surprise on every shot because you knew what was coming, each and every time. Worse yet was a Palma because in each stage it got progressively worse. D*mn, I hated that rifle.

 

[tonyben]

Well, since we've drifted to traditional M14's, here's my LRB with a medium weight Criterion barrel in a carbon kevlar stock, NM sights, welded GC and reamed FS. I bedded it myself in December of 2012 with Marine-Tex.



Here's a recent group after I found a good load with 4064. I know it's nothing like what you guys have done but this is where I am now...

shot at 100; 1.7"...


1.1"...


Shot at 200 two weeks ago...

 

[cdparker]

Tonyben--Good for you. Now go get knee deep in brass. Watch your front sight. Learn something every time you pull a trigger. Earn your Master card, and enjoy the trip.
Favor Center
Craig

 

[wolley]

Tony,
Talk to Nez again. He had an Obermayer reamer slightly modified with a tight freebore. .3082"?
JWolfe may have one of those reamers in his shop.
I would stay with a 12 twist and shoot one of the Hybrids. I really like the 168 hybrid. I can shoot that bullet in my Palma rifle which is throated at .040". Or was 2000 rounds ago. It has grown about .020".
I shoot the 168H in my M1A also and can get it 2800 fairly easily. With a vented and ported Schuster plug!
You know most of the secrets to getting the 14 to shoot. Just execute.

 

[M14AMU]

Comment:

Farr Trophy Match

Billy Atkins, AMU Ft. Benning, Georgia

If you'll check the records you'll find that my old team mate named above has won the Farr Trophy Match at Camp Perry more than any other person. It's a 1000 yard match shooting Service Rifle and Billy won it those times shooting what????.....the M14!! Matter of fact if you win it....you'll receive the Billy Atkins Trophy presented to the winner!!

http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-056.pdf

 

[M14AMU]

When I was shooting the Palma individual match there were two divisions-- Division "A" was the Palma Rifle and division "B" was Service Rifle. There was no shoot off, at least not in the SR division. It's been a while. I got the one in '93 with a score of 433, If I remember correctly. The thing that I was proudest of was that I was only two points behind Billy Atkins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTn47KLQx0E
The bullet that I used was a 176 gr. Delta Bullet made by Rick Mulhern. It was a VLD and shot wonderful. Since he quit making them we all went to the 175 Sierra. I think that if I were doing it today, I'd try one of the long range Berger's in 168/175. The 22" barrel is too short for the 155 or 185 gr Berger's for that distance. I used my combat front sight that had been cut down to 3 clicks up for 100 yds. Most of the High Master shooters used a combat front sight because they were all older guys.
It was about that time when The Marines were still shooting M14's that they won EVERYTHING in Army week. USAMU shooter Ken Gill was the first one to win the Service Rifle Championship with an M16. I saw him last year at the VA. He is in Fairbanks at Ft. Wainwright.

Parker

I wore myself out making those bullets! I still have a few and although 'aged'.....they shoot into the X ring from 1000 quite often!!

 

[Rtheurer]

Billy C as we refer to him on the team. Never shot for the AMU. He shot for the All Army Reserve team as did his son Sgt Chris Atkins. He does indeed have the most wins on the Farr trophy.. tied with two other shooters, one a Marine Joe Sopko and an AMU shooter SSG Scott Grant. all have won the Farr two times. Billy C with an M14 and SSG Grant with an AR10/M110. Not sure what Joe shot both times.
The Billy C Atkins Trophy is the National Long Range championship trophy for the Service rifle. In the last 6 years it has been won with a NM M14 for sure 3 times. Sgt Coggshall of the All Guard team may have also been shooting a M14 for his win as well making it 4 of 6.

No matter what its damn hard to put that Square front sight post on target at 1000 yards. I will say it again. I would rather slam my manhood in a car door than shoot a Service rifle at 1000...

 

[M14AMU]

Billy C as we refer to him on the team. Never shot for the AMU. He shot for the All Army Reserve team as did his son Sgt Chris Atkins. He does indeed have the most wins on the Farr trophy.. tied with two other shooters, one a Marine Joe Sopko and an AMU shooter SSG Scott Grant. all have won the Farr two times. Billy C with an M14 and SSG Grant with an AR10/M110. Not sure what Joe shot both times.
The Billy C Atkins Trophy is the National Long Range championship trophy for the Service rifle. In the last 6 years it has been won with a NM M14 for sure 3 times. Sgt Coggshall of the All Guard team may have also been shooting a M14 for his win as well making it 4 of 6.

No matter what its damn hard to put that Square front sight post on target at 1000 yards. I will say it again. I would rather slam my manhood in a car door than shoot a Service rifle at 1000...

"Never shot for the AMU"

You're absolutely right! What I meant was that we were 'members' of US Army Teams! ;D

 

[hogan]

Is there anyway to keep those ultramatch M-14s in their groove? Not without rebedding the stock every 1200rds or every season is the way I heard it.

Dream rifle? This is what makes the world go round, but shoot a match AR-10 built as carefully and forget about bedding issues and all the other arcana that so many are willing to put up with. I am sure there is some dinosaur with a fine match Garand that can give any/every M14 shooter a run, but... Not like those high-master chappies are putting down their AR-15 service rifles to return to the 1950s era marvels. Try a White Oak Precision service rifle or Compass Lake, or (name your builder); many of the DHM will shoot off shelf Rock River, Armalite, or Colt just to keep it interesting. Some don't even bother to clean their guns during the season...

Maybe the M1a can be butchered-up and made to "shoot", but no Sage stock or any mod not in the book will get you on the firing line for points. Great to challenge self but what's there to prove? Love for the platform don't get you anything and for sure doesn't make up for the lame modality of scope mounting one has to put up with on the M1a, Sadlak base or otherwise.

Dreams are often best left to ponder, not bring into reality. That's what makes them dreams...

 

[Rtheurer]

All very true.
It may apear that im pushing the advantage of the M14 but in reality its still a damn Service rifle shooting a 1000 yards. Aint nothing fun about that in my book... Just me i guess. Give me a Match or Palma rifle anyday.

Really we have been discussing the Long Range aspect and not the XTC where the AR15 really dominates as you have very well pointed out. I dont think there is ANY dispute that at the Across the Course game anyone is going to choose the old wood guns over the AR platform for anymore reasons other than they like to shoot the ole war horses.

Actually your last statment about going to the line for points ( if your talking 1000 yard line like the discusion above) there is nothing wrong with the M14 Platform at all as even current history has proved in the last 6 years in the Long Range National Championship. All this dispite the Very best trained Long Range Service Rilfe shooters in the country deploying the AR 10 platform. Im talking guys who shoot it for living. Its about a toss up really.
Yes the dang thing takes some work.. no denying that. Still has a longer barrel and sight radius which is very important at long range.

 

[M14AMU]

All very true.
It may apear that im pushing the advantage of the M14 but in reality its still a damn Service rifle shooting a 1000 yards. Aint nothing fun about that in my book... Just me i guess. Give me a Match or Palma rifle anyday.

Really we have been discussing the Long Range aspect and not the XTC where the AR15 really dominates as you have very well pointed out. I dont think there is ANY dispute that at the Across the Course game anyone is going to choose the old wood guns over the AR platform for anymore reasons other than they like to shoot the ole war horses.

Actually your last statment about going to the line for points ( if your talking 1000 yard line like the discusion above) there is nothing wrong with the M14 Platform at all as even current history has proved in the last 6 years in the Long Range National Championship. All this dispite the Very best trained Long Range Service Rilfe shooters in the country deploying the AR 10 platform. Im talking guys who shoot it for living. Its about a toss up really.
Yes the dang thing takes some work.. no denying that. Still has a longer barrel and sight radius which is very important at long range.

I'd rather stick my 'whacker' in the jaws of an anvil and let someone honk down on the handle than to try shooting an AR15 to 1000 yards!! :-\ :'(

 

[cdparker]

Rick,
I forgot to mention that when I was using your heavier .30 cal. bullets in my .300WM Prone gun--I got first page place medals in the Wimbledon and the next year, the Leach cup. I just want to thank you for making a really fine product.
Craig

 

[M14AMU]

Rick,
I forgot to mention that when I was using your heavier .30 cal. bullets in my .300WM Prone gun--I got first page place medals in the Wimbledon and the next year, the Leach cup. I just want to thank you for making a really fine product.
Craig

Craig

I didn't sell those dies by the way! They got RUINED in a short change of location and I was flying away from home and I thought they were safe...as to where I left them. Not so! I cry every day!! Bob Simonson up in Michigan made those for me with specs I got from Robert L. McCoy who was the Chief Ballistician for Aberdeen Proving Ground and US Army. I still have folks calling me for bullets!! Glad they worked well for you! I never sent anything out....that I hadn't already tested myself and I knew they were winners....in the right hands! I like to think of myself as 'the force' behind making Sierra and Berger get up off their azzes and finally making a bullet that would stay supersonic to 1000 yards in the M14 because that's why I started making a 176 gr. with rebated boat-tail. McCoy told me that everything that he had tested within the sparkgraph range he had showed at least a 5% increased performance over a plain tapered base bullet. Doesn't sound like much....but when it comes to X count.....it means a lot!!

 

[Bamban]

Is there anyway to keep those ultramatch M-14s in their groove? Not without rebedding the stock every 1200rds or every season is the way I heard it.

Dream rifle? This is what makes the world go round, but shoot a match AR-10 built as carefully and forget about bedding issues and all the other arcana that so many are willing to put up with. I am sure there is some dinosaur with a fine match Garand that can give any/every M14 shooter a run, but... Not like those high-master chappies are putting down their AR-15 service rifles to return to the 1950s era marvels. Try a White Oak Precision service rifle or Compass Lake, or (name your builder); many of the DHM will shoot off shelf Rock River, Armalite, or Colt just to keep it interesting. Some don't even bother to clean their guns during the season...

Maybe the M1a can be butchered-up and made to "shoot", but no Sage stock or any mod not in the book will get you on the firing line for points. Great to challenge self but what's there to prove? Love for the platform don't get you anything and for sure doesn't make up for the lame modality of scope mounting one has to put up with on the M1a, Sadlak base or otherwise.

Dreams are often best left to ponder, not bring into reality. That's what makes them dreams...

I lucked out in mine, a double lugged one, on its second barrel on the same bedding it still brings smile to my face whenever I shoot it. When was the last time you shot your 14? Maybe you should dust off that big stick and give it some love every now and then.

Through all the years with many great military service rifle shooters behind the ARs, there is still a record that has not been broken, the individual Interservice 1000 point aggregate set by a Marine with his battle rifle - 995-50X.

 

[kcomeau10x]

Hey, Rick! Why not post a picture of the bullet that showed the way to stay supersonic out of an M14/M1a. That is a bit of bullet history few people know about. I think it's great,too, that your grandsons like getting off the couch and doing a little shooting at 1000 yards with their granddad. Any chance of them following in your footsteps?

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Shot the 180gr "Wayne's Whistler" VLD from the M1A and that bullet shot as well as I could point them. Used that same bullet in my Palma rifle all the way through the Nat'ls in '97 with irons and ended up like 6th in the Tompkins agg. Elevation at 1000 was stellar. As soon as Wayne Anderson of Burlington WI could no longer get the SIE jackets, he pretty much pulled the plug on making them. Lots of teary eyes when he quit pulling the handle on his bullet press.

 

[M14AMU]

Hey, Rick! Why not post a picture of the bullet that showed the way to stay supersonic out of an M14/M1a. That is a bit of bullet history few people know about. I think it's great,too, that your grandsons like getting off the couch and doing a little shooting at 1000 yards with their granddad. Any chance of them following in your footsteps?

Ken

I'll see if I can't hunt a few up and do that! As for the grandsons 'following me'...and their Dad.....they all like shooting, flying great airplanes, hunting big whitetail bucks and mule deer, love playing baseball and football....and have IRISH BLOOD! Me thinks they're well on the way into my footsteps.....with love from a Dad that is beyond excellent!!