cdparker said:When I was shooting the Palma individual match there were two divisions-- Division "A" was the Palma Rifle and division "B" was Service Rifle. There was no shoot off, at least not in the SR division. It's been a while. I got the one in '93 with a score of 433, If I remember correctly. The thing that I was proudest of was that I was only two points behind Billy Atkins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTn47KLQx0E
The bullet that I used was a 176 gr. Delta Bullet made by Rick Mulhern. It was a VLD and shot wonderful. Since he quit making them we all went to the 175 Sierra. I think that if I were doing it today, I'd try one of the long range Berger's in 168/175. The 22" barrel is too short for the 155 or 185 gr Berger's for that distance. I used my combat front sight that had been cut down to 3 clicks up for 100 yds. Most of the High Master shooters used a combat front sight because they were all older guys.![]()
It was about that time when The Marines were still shooting M14's that they won EVERYTHING in Army week. USAMU shooter Ken Gill was the first one to win the Service Rifle Championship with an M16. I saw him last year at the VA. He is in Fairbanks at Ft. Wainwright.
Rtheurer said:Billy C as we refer to him on the team. Never shot for the AMU. He shot for the All Army Reserve team as did his son Sgt Chris Atkins. He does indeed have the most wins on the Farr trophy.. tied with two other shooters, one a Marine Joe Sopko and an AMU shooter SSG Scott Grant. all have won the Farr two times. Billy C with an M14 and SSG Grant with an AR10/M110. Not sure what Joe shot both times.
The Billy C Atkins Trophy is the National Long Range championship trophy for the Service rifle. In the last 6 years it has been won with a NM M14 for sure 3 times. Sgt Coggshall of the All Guard team may have also been shooting a M14 for his win as well making it 4 of 6.
No matter what its damn hard to put that Square front sight post on target at 1000 yards. I will say it again. I would rather slam my manhood in a car door than shoot a Service rifle at 1000...
Rtheurer said:All very true.
It may apear that im pushing the advantage of the M14 but in reality its still a damn Service rifle shooting a 1000 yards. Aint nothing fun about that in my book... Just me i guess. Give me a Match or Palma rifle anyday.
Really we have been discussing the Long Range aspect and not the XTC where the AR15 really dominates as you have very well pointed out. I dont think there is ANY dispute that at the Across the Course game anyone is going to choose the old wood guns over the AR platform for anymore reasons other than they like to shoot the ole war horses.
Actually your last statment about going to the line for points ( if your talking 1000 yard line like the discusion above) there is nothing wrong with the M14 Platform at all as even current history has proved in the last 6 years in the Long Range National Championship. All this dispite the Very best trained Long Range Service Rilfe shooters in the country deploying the AR 10 platform. Im talking guys who shoot it for living. Its about a toss up really.
Yes the dang thing takes some work.. no denying that. Still has a longer barrel and sight radius which is very important at long range.
cdparker said:Rick,
I forgot to mention that when I was using your heavier .30 cal. bullets in my .300WM Prone gun--I got first page place medals in the Wimbledon and the next year, the Leach cup. I just want to thank you for making a really fine product.
Craig
hogan said:Is there anyway to keep those ultramatch M-14s in their groove? Not without rebedding the stock every 1200rds or every season is the way I heard it.
Dream rifle? This is what makes the world go round, but shoot a match AR-10 built as carefully and forget about bedding issues and all the other arcana that so many are willing to put up with. I am sure there is some dinosaur with a fine match Garand that can give any/every M14 shooter a run, but... Not like those high-master chappies are putting down their AR-15 service rifles to return to the 1950s era marvels. Try a White Oak Precision service rifle or Compass Lake, or (name your builder); many of the DHM will shoot off shelf Rock River, Armalite, or Colt just to keep it interesting. Some don't even bother to clean their guns during the season...
Maybe the M1a can be butchered-up and made to "shoot", but no Sage stock or any mod not in the book will get you on the firing line for points. Great to challenge self but what's there to prove? Love for the platform don't get you anything and for sure doesn't make up for the lame modality of scope mounting one has to put up with on the M1a, Sadlak base or otherwise.
Dreams are often best left to ponder, not bring into reality. That's what makes them dreams...
kcomeau10x said:Hey, Rick! Why not post a picture of the bullet that showed the way to stay supersonic out of an M14/M1a. That is a bit of bullet history few people know about. I think it's great,too, that your grandsons like getting off the couch and doing a little shooting at 1000 yards with their granddad. Any chance of them following in your footsteps?