H4895 and H4198 -- Hodgdon Availability Report

[jackieschmidt]

Laurie, as a long time Benchrest Competitor, I have seen the ups and downs with Vhit’s distribution problems through the decades.
As of recent, they seem to be a very reliable producer and marketer For the powders we in short range Group and Score use, mainly N133 and N130.

I appreciate your efforts in explaining the world wide situation with obtaining certain propellants. But, whether the industry likes it or not, there is a perception in the civilian shooting community that all of the major manufacturers, and distributors, sold us down the drain in order to produce as much as the Ukrainians and probably the Russians needed in their effort to continue killing each other.

 

[hoz53]

I wasn't saying that, or certainly didn't mean to if I did. I don't believe Viht is favouring the US over the UK and Europe.

What I meant is that with demand having risen so massively across all markets and so many suppliers having dropped out, even Viht's very considerable increase in output isn't enough to satisfy every market. With US demand having risen so hugely for Viht products, it inevitably sees us struggling to get enough, especially as our other previous main sources (Alliant and Reload Swiss) have dried up.

On pricing, in around 40 years of using Viht rifle powders, I've seen prices inevitably rise as a result of inflation (and often the pound sterling losing value against the Euro too), but I've never felt this company has taken advantage of temporary shortages. The Finns (and that includes the other parts of Nammo - Lapua components and .22 rimfire ammunition) appear to regard themselves as being in markets for the long run and pricing accordingly.

Overall, I'm delighted that Viht is doing so much better these days in the US - a strong presence and sales success in the world's largest market for ammunition components strengthens the company and will encourage new investment and expansion.

I'm also convinced that not all of Viht's recent US success is a result of shortages. As well as making a huge range of very good products, its parent company Nammo invested in the USA in a big way buying Berger Bullets and made a key improvement by creating a modern, efficient ordering processing and distribution system by setting up Capstone Precision from scratch to handle all four product groups: Berger; Lapua; Viht; SK. Price aside, Viht lost out badly in earlier years because the various franchised US distributors it employed over the years didn't appear to be up to the huge and complex job of supplying this market, whilst the Hodgdon group did (and still does) this job superbly.

Thanks again Laurie-- you do provide a world view of these things which is rare as Id say the majority of shooters here havent been out of the US. You cleared that stuff up I was wondering about in last post.
Im sure glad Nammo came along and improved our situation. Im trying to show my appreciation by buying some of their products

 

[hoz53]

Have they lowered their prices or just kept them flat?

Well that may be true. I cant remember the prices in past exactly . I know they are very competitive now and i hope they stay that way.

 

[AlNyhus]

As a SR Benchrest competitor with the 30BR's, I'm a died-in-the-wool H4198 guy...and have a goodly supply.

There's also an upside to the unavailability of H4198.....it forced many to explore other powders that they wouldn't have considered. It made people work at it. And that's a good thing.

 

[BleedsBlue]

What Viht. substitute are people using for H4895? Something slightly faster burn rate than varget with temp stability N540 or n135?

 

[RGRobinett]

As a SR Benchrest competitor with the 30BR's, I'm a died-in-the-wool H4198 guy...and have a goodly supply.

There's also an upside to the unavailability of H4198.....it forced many to explore other powders that they wouldn't have considered. It made people work at it. And that's a good thing.

This is an example of a horrific way to store powder - NEVER lay a jug either on its side , or, edge -HE says, "it reduces the weight on the bottom layer & the top layer goes all fluffy"!!
You'd better send that down for BIG MIKE's inspection and certification process - once approved, you'll likely get back, at least, 1/2 a jug. RG

 

[AlNyhus]

This is an example of a horrific way to store powder - NEVER lay a jug either on its side , or, edge -HE says, "it reduces the weight on the bottom layer & the top layer goes all fluffy"!!
You'd better send that down for BIG MIKE's inspection and certification process - once approved, you'll likely get back, at least, 1/2 a jug. RG

Randy, is this better? Asking for a friend......

 

[RGRobinett]

Randy, is this better? Asking for a friend......

You need to wire that alternating / direct current sh^+*&*%#@t to that copper/bronze gizmo and amplify your brain . . . maybe modulate some organized thinking! . . . makes me think of Stan! RG

 

[SeabeeKen]

A serious note.
I have been in buisness for 50 years. Even though we are a manufacturing facility with a strong customer base, we never loose sight of the fact that our customers have other options if we cannot meet their needs. In short, we do not tell our loyal customer base no.

Hodgdon made a decision several years ago to forsake their loyal customer base in the Reloading Community and go for a more, (at the time), lucrative market in the marketing of munitions for a very profitable War in Ukraine.

That’s fine. We all want to make a dollar. But the political climate has changed, and the new Administration has pledged to do everything possible to end that War. That means the Powder that has been sold during the War will now have to be marketed in the Civilian Market.

But what if those abandoned customers have discovered other (available) options that give the same level of performance. Should Hodgdon just assume that every body is waiting with bated breath for the return of two popular powders that were so abruptly taken from the market?

It would be nice if everybody told Hodgdon to take a hike. But we won’t. We will be beating the doors down and burning up the keyboard to get our orders in. And we will pay. Probably $80 a pound.

I include myself in this. When it comes to shooting just a little smaller, or gaining just one more X, I’m as big of a whore as anybody.

Rest assured I didnt wait, nor will I. I moved on and not planning a return to Hodgdon and the powder games. Now with new tariffs looming on canada, what will the IMR powder cost. This nation best get back to making our own products again. I agree with what you said Jackie, spot on

 

[wildcatter]

Kinda shades of Coke changing its formula years ago, then getting a tsunami of opposition, then changing it back....tons of users never believed they did change back.

That because it was not originol then, they had already changed it from the days it had coca plant extracts in it. But today everything is a different formula, even our favorite powders, or they get discontinued.

 

[FNSafari]

The point is Coke changed the formula, they said, back to the formula that was used before the New Coke formula was unveiled. Confused?

 

[Larry Koch]

Randy, is this better? Asking for a friend......

We no where you live.

 

[Jeff Porter]

What Viht. substitute are people using for H4895? Something slightly faster burn rate than varget with temp stability N540 or n135?

N135 is working for me with .223 heavy bullets and 6BRA.

 

[Baka]

Kinda shades of Coke changing its formula years ago, then getting a tsunami of opposition, then changing it back....tons of users never believed they did change back.

They didn’t change back.

 

[Bill K]

I am glad to read how so many are giving up on Hodgdon. Just makes for more for
those of us that do and will still use it. Thanks fellows, hope you don't change your mind, down the road.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I'm glad that you're glad and you're welcome.

 

[durand mortenson]

I just found a full can of H4198 in my gun safe....nice surprise,

 

[Larry Koch]

I just found a full can of H4198 in my gun safe....nice surprise,

Hide it again. And find another one. Then sell me one.

 

[243winxb]

https://ammoseek.com/
Email from HODGDON. Available next week.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

https://ammoseek.com/
Email from HODGDON. Available next week. View attachment 1633213

Probably closer to $80 a pound to your door.