Getting a featherweight barreled rifle to shoot????

[L.Sherm]

I agree with Boyd and Ackley man you may never get that pencil barrel to shoot any better like wise I had one once and it gave me fits nothing less than a #5 now.

 

[6xcshooter]

dont need to worry about it if its for hunting. inch groups or better is just fine. you said 2 first shots would have superposed each other so dont worry bout it. Hit the animal you shoot at with the first shot. light hunting rifles have a trade off less weight for less accuracy. if you you really need to shoot 1\4 inch groups , get rid of it and get a different gun. It's always a crap shoot when your trying to get an accurate rifle. There's things you can do but if you can't get it to shoot to your standards get a different rifle. Like i said if it's for hunting inch or better is just fine, if were me the 5\8 groups your getting is good enough. I've been there, a guy gets ruined when you have guns that shoot 1\4 inch groups , so then you think all guns need to shoot 1\4 groups. for a light weight hunting rifle 5|8 groups will be adequate.

 

[msinc]

I am happy to report that the issue{s} with this platform have been discovered and corrected. I now have a setup that will shoot 1/2" to 3/4" three shot groups. Special thanks to all that have followed this thread and offered their assistance!!!
Once I got the neck tension thing solved I was able to see what was happening...the rifle would shoot one round dead on POA then throw one exactly 1 1/2" left. The next shot would be touching the first one. Next group, same thing...dead on POA then exactly 1 1/2" but to the right this time with the third round touching the first. After repeating this same scenario three times I decided it was time to switch scopes.
Sure enough...the 1 1/2" left or right swing stopped completely with a different known good scope.
It is hard to believe that a brand new Night Force SHV fails to hold zero, but the scope change cured the problem.
As long as there was a neck tension issue the rifle shot all over the place and that complicated where to look. However, the horizontal was always 1 1/2", the vertical was always less. I do not know why the first rounds always impacted right on POA, luck I guess or bad luck depending on how you look at it....would have been easier if it didn't seem like it was trying to shoot.
My next purchase will be some sort of chronograph.

 

[msinc]

I agree with Boyd and Ackley man you may never get that pencil barrel to shoot any better like wise I had one once and it gave me fits nothing less than a #5 now.

Yes sir, you can best believe this will be my first and last!!!!

 

[msinc]

dont need to worry about it if its for hunting. inch groups or better is just fine. you said 2 first shots would have superposed each other so dont worry bout it. Hit the animal you shoot at with the first shot. light hunting rifles have a trade off less weight for less accuracy. if you you really need to shoot 1\4 inch groups , get rid of it and get a different gun. It's always a crap shoot when your trying to get an accurate rifle. There's things you can do but if you can't get it to shoot to your standards get a different rifle. Like i said if it's for hunting inch or better is just fine, if were me the 5\8 groups your getting is good enough. I've been there, a guy gets ruined when you have guns that shoot 1\4 inch groups , so then you think all guns need to shoot 1\4 groups. for a light weight hunting rifle 5|8 groups will be adequate.

Thanks for the post...if I was getting all 5/8" groups I would have been tickled stupid!!! The problem was that one out of about 6 was that good...the rest were 1 1/2 or bigger. If I really need to see 1/4" groups I don't need a different gun...I have several that will do it, just not this one.

 

[msinc]

Not annealing brass right doesnt cause groups that big- come on. People didnt just start shooting sub 5" groups because annealing came along. Br shooters never anneal and shoot sub 1/4" 5 shot groups

Not sure if you are being facetious, but, just in case you are serious I agree 110%...I also don't believe annealing brass is this great, galactic, super complicated, scientific accomplishment that only the rare few are gifted with the I.Q. enough to figure out and then execute properly.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No im very serious. I dont know of any short range br shooter annealing brass at a match and ive seen some fabulous world record groups and aggs shot and you cant shoot a teen agg over a weekend with a problem. A dirty trigger will destroy a weekend agg- and annealing aint involved. Scopes and wind flags are the biggest factor in shooting groups- way more than weighed to the kernel charges and sorted bullets. I think most folks cant see the forest for the trees. Hes not shooting 5/8" groups instead of 1/4" because of his brass needing annealed.

 

[L.Sherm]

I bet the BR shooters you are describing werent able to push some of there bullets in by hand. Just trying to figure out if he had alot of spring back in some of his brass. sounds like he pretty much got it figured out anyway.

 

[msinc]

Well....the end of the big mystery!!! This morning I called Night Force to inquire about anything I should check on this scope before I send it back to be checked. I told the guy in customer service that when I switched the scope the problem went away. He asked if I only switched the scope or if I moved the rings and bases too and also if I checked the tightness of the rings and bases. He then proceeded to tell me that the only rings and bases Night Force recommends are the mil-spec 1913 Picatinny rail type base and mil-spec rings to fit. He said that because the SHV is such a heavy scope that those type rings and base were the only ones that would stand up to the mass of the heavy scope under recoil.
Sure enough, this afternoon, when I tried the SHV on a different rifle with different/better rings and bases it held zero without any problem!!! This would explain why the rifle shot better with the muzzle brake installed...less recoil, less movement in the ring/base combo I was using. Incidentally, I was using the old Redfield type {new Leupold brand} with the two lateral windage screws on the rear base. The guy at Night Force said that without a doubt that type would never hold zero with this rifle scope combo, and he was right. i didn't select these by choice...they were the only type in stock at the gun store when I bought the rifle. The correct rings and bases should arrive in a few days.
One other thing I would like to mention...several of you fellas asked me about parallax. I did check, but did not have any with the rifle/scope that was giving me fits. I never really gave parallax much thought, never had it cause any problems. I was always aware of it and would check from time to time, but again never really had it show up. Well today I got a lesson in just how easy this was to have sneak up on you...one of my other rifles has the USMC PMII 3-12 scope. I noticed that the side focus was reading almost 200 meters when the range was 100 yards. Sure enough, when I moved my head side to side the reticle moved in relation to the target. Not until I set the side focus to just under 100 and then properly adjusted the diopter did the parallax disappear. Thanks again for all the tips and info fells...I am hopeful that this thread might help others as much as it has helped me.

 

[6xcshooter]

now put 58 to 59 grains of IMR4831 with a berger 140 vld hunting bullet and i bet you will have found your load too. (I never had much luck with the noslers you used)

 

[msinc]

now put 58 to 59 grains of IMR4831 with a berger 140 vld hunting bullet and i bet you will have found your load too. (I never had much luck with the noslers you used)

I will sure give it a try!!!!!! Thanks for the tip.

 

[jlow]

Well....the end of the big mystery!!! This morning I called Night Force to inquire about anything I should check on this scope before I send it back to be checked. I told the guy in customer service that when I switched the scope the problem went away. He asked if I only switched the scope or if I moved the rings and bases too and also if I checked the tightness of the rings and bases. He then proceeded to tell me that the only rings and bases Night Force recommends are the mil-spec 1913 Picatinny rail type base and mil-spec rings to fit. He said that because the SHV is such a heavy scope that those type rings and base were the only ones that would stand up to the mass of the heavy scope under recoil.
Sure enough, this afternoon, when I tried the SHV on a different rifle with different/better rings and bases it held zero without any problem!!! This would explain why the rifle shot better with the muzzle brake installed...less recoil, less movement in the ring/base combo I was using. Incidentally, I was using the old Redfield type {new Leupold brand} with the two lateral windage screws on the rear base. The guy at Night Force said that without a doubt that type would never hold zero with this rifle scope combo, and he was right. i didn't select these by choice...they were the only type in stock at the gun store when I bought the rifle. The correct rings and bases should arrive in a few days.
One other thing I would like to mention...several of you fellas asked me about parallax. I did check, but did not have any with the rifle/scope that was giving me fits. I never really gave parallax much thought, never had it cause any problems. I was always aware of it and would check from time to time, but again never really had it show up. Well today I got a lesson in just how easy this was to have sneak up on you...one of my other rifles has the USMC PMII 3-12 scope. I noticed that the side focus was reading almost 200 meters when the range was 100 yards. Sure enough, when I moved my head side to side the reticle moved in relation to the target. Not until I set the side focus to just under 100 and then properly adjusted the diopter did the parallax disappear. Thanks again for all the tips and info fells...I am hopeful that this thread might help others as much as it has helped me.

Get yourself some nice Seeking rings and make sure you torque them to spec with a torque wrench. I cannot tell you the number of times I have fixed scope ring that were loose at the range for people that had them put on at the gun store...

 

[LHSmith]

I have learned to ALWAYS check for ANY parallax at each outing....it is the first thing I do after getting the rifle lined up on target.
Re: the brake, the previous posts stated there was no difference on target?
Also, we still don't know about the rate of fire?

 

[msinc]

I have learned to ALWAYS check for ANY parallax at each outing....it is the first thing I do after getting the rifle lined up on target.
Re: the brake, the previous posts stated there was no difference on target?
Also, we still don't know about the rate of fire?

It will be a priority for me from now on...I always preferred fixed power 10X scopes and once set there was really nothing to worry about, now just about everything I have has a variable with side focus and rapid diopter adjustments. i also make it a point to pay attention to my external turrets BEFORE I go hunting. Learned that one the hard way too, on a big black bear no less!!
There was no difference on target back when I was having all the neck tension issues...I think it shot better with the brake after I solved that issue and began using the Nosler BT bullets and IMR4831 powder. I really could not begin tell what this rifle was doing until I got the neck tension fixed and started shooting all the same ammo for each range trip.
Just as above, the rate of fire varied...at first I was letting it cool off between rounds, then I would fire three and let it cool. I always paid particular attention to the very first round of each day.