Getting a featherweight barreled rifle to shoot????
- Thread starter msinc
- Start date
May I ask your expectations?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If it shoots 1" 3 shot groups id say you got a keeper
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Itll be real sensitive to hold as well. Gotta find what it wants then your groups will shrink big time. Id bed it, free float the barrel except the cyl part then work with it. 3 shots is really getting it hot tho
I only shoot one shot groups for my light weight hunting rifles,,all I need is for it to hit where I point it with the first shot from a cold bore day in and day out,,
Wait at least 2 minutes between shots.
Thanks for all the replies fellas!!! I will try to answer in order...
Expectations: I would like to see a 1" 3 shot group. Of course, anything smaller would be fantastic. Considering that I am sizing to headspace, using a Sinclair primer pocket uniforming tool, deburring the flash hole, seating with a positive type primer tool, annealing, outside neck turning a light clean up cut, using premium bullets and seating to .003" concentricity or less with a straight line seater.
Sensitive to hold: Yep, that was my first lesson in shooting a lightweight rifle...all my other rifles sport heavy barrels and I got spoiled, bad...I did get a Sinclair bench rest with the adjustable top you can close down on the forend tightly. I also got a Protektor Doctor rear bag. This set up has had a positive effect on shooting in general and helped to shrink the groups of my other rifles, so I think it was a good investment.
I did in fact bed the rifle and adjusted the trigger as light as it would go. Barrel is floated and yes, three shots gets her pretty hot. That leads up to one of my biggest problems...waiting for it to cool down so I can resume testing.
I have noticed that it does not seem to like heavier bullets...I am loading now to begin testing lighter ones, although the purpose of this rifle was really to try and shoot heavier bullets for hunting. In all fairness to the rifle, it just may not be broke in yet...Kimber is now making their own barrels and it is a cut rifled barrel. I will say that the lands are very nicely honed smooth before it is rifled {I can see the crosshatch with my borescope}, but the grooves are way rougher than I am used to seeing. It is starting to clean up pretty easily though. It also seems to shoot a better group if the velocity is higher.
I agree the first shot is the one that needs to be worried about...in this regard it is certainly acceptable. I mean, I know I will kill an animal on the first shot the way it currently shoots. I have been playing with some different loads, bullets and powders but it does not seem to be changing in any given direction much at all. Which again kind of points to the barrel needing to be broken in some more.
I barreled a pre-64 Model 70 with a Rock Creek barrel that appeared to be a whole lot smoother inside than this one just about the same time I got this rifle and the Rock Creek is just now starting to break in and group. I think I probably need to do a little more lead slinging, but I was hoping to at least see what direction to move in. Thanks again fellas for all the tips and info so far!!!!!
Two minutes between shots: Yes sir, it generally takes longer than that...this thing has really got a pencil for a pipe and to top it off they even fluted it!!!
Expectations: I would like to see a 1" 3 shot group. Of course, anything smaller would be fantastic. Considering that I am sizing to headspace, using a Sinclair primer pocket uniforming tool, deburring the flash hole, seating with a positive type primer tool, annealing, outside neck turning a light clean up cut, using premium bullets and seating to .003" concentricity or less with a straight line seater.
Sensitive to hold: Yep, that was my first lesson in shooting a lightweight rifle...all my other rifles sport heavy barrels and I got spoiled, bad...I did get a Sinclair bench rest with the adjustable top you can close down on the forend tightly. I also got a Protektor Doctor rear bag. This set up has had a positive effect on shooting in general and helped to shrink the groups of my other rifles, so I think it was a good investment.
I did in fact bed the rifle and adjusted the trigger as light as it would go. Barrel is floated and yes, three shots gets her pretty hot. That leads up to one of my biggest problems...waiting for it to cool down so I can resume testing.
I have noticed that it does not seem to like heavier bullets...I am loading now to begin testing lighter ones, although the purpose of this rifle was really to try and shoot heavier bullets for hunting. In all fairness to the rifle, it just may not be broke in yet...Kimber is now making their own barrels and it is a cut rifled barrel. I will say that the lands are very nicely honed smooth before it is rifled {I can see the crosshatch with my borescope}, but the grooves are way rougher than I am used to seeing. It is starting to clean up pretty easily though. It also seems to shoot a better group if the velocity is higher.
I agree the first shot is the one that needs to be worried about...in this regard it is certainly acceptable. I mean, I know I will kill an animal on the first shot the way it currently shoots. I have been playing with some different loads, bullets and powders but it does not seem to be changing in any given direction much at all. Which again kind of points to the barrel needing to be broken in some more.
I barreled a pre-64 Model 70 with a Rock Creek barrel that appeared to be a whole lot smoother inside than this one just about the same time I got this rifle and the Rock Creek is just now starting to break in and group. I think I probably need to do a little more lead slinging, but I was hoping to at least see what direction to move in. Thanks again fellas for all the tips and info so far!!!!!
Two minutes between shots: Yes sir, it generally takes longer than that...this thing has really got a pencil for a pipe and to top it off they even fluted it!!!
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Waiting between shots gives too much time for conditions to change. You could add an inch to your group for a wind shift. 2 quick shots may be your best indicator now that i think about it- before heat sinks in. I shoot a bunch of #2 and 3 barrels but youre dealing with a fluted #1 which is just a whole different animal. Great gun to carry tho- ive been waiting to come across an adirondack.
Yep, you kinda forget you have it on your shoulder. I agree, for test purposes two shots back to back might be the best way to test. I also understand that just because a featherweight shoots a good group on a high quality bench don't mean it will be easy in a hunting situation. Depending on the shooter/hunter the rifle, no matter how accurate it is on the bench, may not be usable.
billlarson
"Hold Into The Wind"
This is a good idea....... shoot I shot a day for 5 days.... same target...... then adjust scope.....
IMHO- not that great of an idea if your goal is the tightest 3 shot group the gun can offer.....atmospheric conditions would have to be exactly the same at each outing......extremely unlikely.
Premium bullets? What bullet? Many "Premium" bullets are sold as high end fodder because of their unique construction for hunting use....and will never group as well as some of the less expensive bullets -i.e.- Nosler Partition vs. Ballistic Tip.
Unsure on your comment about "close down on the fore-end tightly".....It is detrimental to accuracy to have the front of the stock "clamped" too tightly to the front sand bag. The rifle should be free to move rearward upon recoil...the more consistent the movement the more consistent the accuracy. The lateral restriction you are attempting should not enter into the equation if you are not firing alongside others during your testing.
So far, I have never been able to get partitions to shoot what I call good groups out of anything. I also don't know of anyone that has. Not saying it cant be done though. Premium hunting bullets and premium target bullets are two different purpose things...with this rifle I have tried both. In terms of accuracy only, I think Sierra match kings are a good bullet to start with.
When I say close down on the forend tightly I am referring to the ability with this rest to close the gap on the sides of the forend so the rifle isn't wobbling or moving side to side...the use of "tightly" was just to denote that the rifle isn't shaking around laterally, not that it cannot move under recoil straight back. Again, the bench rest setup I just got has improved my shooting "across the board" so I have concluded that it is helpful with this rifle too. I read somewhere that it was said "you should be able to work the bolt without the rifle moving on the bench"...they must not be referring to hunting rifles!!! I don't think I could do that with hose clamps.
Thanks for pointing these two possible issues out. Sinclair suggests that you completely remove the swivel bases when benching hunting rifles...I just make sure the swivels are not on the bags, but this one has caused a few headaches anyway.
When I say close down on the forend tightly I am referring to the ability with this rest to close the gap on the sides of the forend so the rifle isn't wobbling or moving side to side...the use of "tightly" was just to denote that the rifle isn't shaking around laterally, not that it cannot move under recoil straight back. Again, the bench rest setup I just got has improved my shooting "across the board" so I have concluded that it is helpful with this rifle too. I read somewhere that it was said "you should be able to work the bolt without the rifle moving on the bench"...they must not be referring to hunting rifles!!! I don't think I could do that with hose clamps.
Thanks for pointing these two possible issues out. Sinclair suggests that you completely remove the swivel bases when benching hunting rifles...I just make sure the swivels are not on the bags, but this one has caused a few headaches anyway.
billlarson
"Hold Into The Wind"
I don`t think you understand the mans question.........we`re talking a feather weight barrel here.......... a hunting gun................... the shot will be taken on who knows what day....... sno.... rain...... heat....... use same target for 5 days...... evaluate accuracy and p.o.I. then.....
bill larson
Yes, ultimately, at the end of the day this will be done before I take the rifle out to hunt with it...this is a good idea and really probably the best way to have a reasonable expectation of where the bullet will impact.
I agree, but we are talking apples and oranges...at this time my concern is knowing just how accurate the rifle can be. I want to know this so I can correct and improve what ever I can to have as accurate of a rifle as possible. So you are correct in that testing for best group and site in for hunting is two different things, just as shooting off bags and carrying this thing in the woods will be way different too.
According to Kimber's website, that rifle is supposed to have a "sub MOA accuracy standard".
Was there a test target included with the rifle to prove it met that standard, or is that quote just a bunch of marketing crap?
If it did have a test target, I'd be trying whatever load Kimber used to prove that as a baseline for accuracy to work toward with your chosen bullet...
If it didn't, I'd be sending the rifle back to Kimber.
In my experiences, good shootin' rifles WANT to shoot. Finding a decent load should not be a quest for the Holy Grail.
Life is too short to jackwad around with a finicky rifle. That Kimber has a $2K MSRP, it should shoot in line with the price tag...
Was there a test target included with the rifle to prove it met that standard, or is that quote just a bunch of marketing crap?
If it did have a test target, I'd be trying whatever load Kimber used to prove that as a baseline for accuracy to work toward with your chosen bullet...
If it didn't, I'd be sending the rifle back to Kimber.
In my experiences, good shootin' rifles WANT to shoot. Finding a decent load should not be a quest for the Holy Grail.
Life is too short to jackwad around with a finicky rifle. That Kimber has a $2K MSRP, it should shoot in line with the price tag...
billlarson
"Hold Into The Wind"
I am referring to this phenomenon: Set up a Scoped rifle in the bags and without touching the set-up observe the subtle movement of the crosshairs in relation to the target through extended periods .....15 min. , 30 min.. etc./i.e. the POA wanders. This is most easily observed with higher power optics >25 x. The POA moves due to atmospheric refraction due to temperature differences along the optical path....aka mirage.
Now, if the OP's goal is to shoot small groups routinely( which is what I read into his thread), his best chance for success is to shoot all 3 shots under the same atmospheric conditions........which is exactly why in a typical registered BR Score match, given a day nice calm day ,while one can adjust POA to POI in the warm-up match or even into Match 1, one must "hold off" (Kentucky windage if you like) in the succeeding matches (2 thru 5). On a day with huge temp. swings each match may require a different hold off.This is due to the warming up of the environs as the day gets longer.
FWIW, just because you cannot see the mirage impacting POA does not mean it's not affecting your group size.
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