Backup Generators

[hoz53]

Not yet, I probably will in the future. No bill will be nice. And if power stays out for an extended time you don’t worry about getting a fuel source. Unless the sun doesn’t shine but there’s trade off with everything. My problem was getting hooked into the grid on a new build since I’m so far off the road, and I’m too far north to just run straight solar. Got it all sorted out though. Check Tesla out.

alot of that solar stuff happening around here- Ill check into it some more

 

[carlsbad]

Lol jerry. I may need table saw to cut eggs I make my shop is a mile from the house but i do have a radial and table saw at both places. Yeah i think 10 K would work for me. that is very important about the transfer switch I know. Ive known that awhile as im an electrician but its sure good to let anyone reading this know. Thanks

Years ago, as California started to de-regulate our electrical system became very unreliable for a few months. I was very close to buying a generator when the plan was abandoned and electricity became reliable again. With mild weather, it doesn't make sense to have a generator here. But I was looking forward to rolling my table saw out into the driveway and making cabinets while the rest of the cul-de-sac had no power.

 

[hoz53]

I knew an electrician who was killed with that same scenario, two houses down the street after a severe storm brought lines down. A properly installed changeover switch is essential.
I have seen double male ended extension cords used and as an electrician, this upsets me greatly. Folks just do not understand the implications of doing this.

yep im an electrician to and anytime i talk with someone about generators i always bring this up. Thanks

I knew an electrician who was killed with that same scenario, two houses down the street after a severe storm brought lines down. A properly installed changeover switch is essential.
I have seen double male ended extension cords used and as an electrician, this upsets me greatly. Folks just do not understand the implications of doing this.

 

[hoz53]

Years ago, as California started to de-regulate our electrical system became very unreliable for a few months. I was very close to buying a generator when the plan was abandoned and electricity became reliable again. With mild weather, it doesn't make sense to have a generator here. But I was looking forward to rolling my table saw out into the driveway and making cabinets while the rest of the cul-de-sac had no power.

thats a good one. yesterday i coulda done that at my house . guess im getting impatient in my old age - used to be i had the Im Tough Guy mindset and i dont need Electricity (beat chest). Now when i want the lights ect i want them and not in a few minutes right now

 

[hoz53]

All this talk about gennys & I have forgotten to run mine this month! All in good time, have an informal smallbore prone match tomorrow and genny will have to wait until Sunday. : )

cant think of a better excuse

 

[TheOtherZilla]

I knew an electrician who was killed with that same scenario, two houses down the street after a severe storm brought lines down. A properly installed changeover switch is essential.
I have seen double male ended extension cords used and as an electrician, this upsets me greatly. Folks just do not understand the implications of doing this.

Yes people die from this. I worked in a coal mine for 20 years. Had a faulty tranfer switch on a dragline kill a mine electrician there.

 

[hoz53]

I have an "all electric house". Did my research for about a month before I made a decision.
a) check with your electrical supplier for their requirements. My supplier only mandated an Automatic Buss Transfer Switch. This automatically disconnects your house from the utility and shuts down the generator and hooks you back to the utility when they regain service.
b) make an inventory of all of the electron consuming equipment you have and add up its power requirements. You may be surprised at your electrical requirements, add another 15% to the total.
c) go with natural gas if possible. It will de-rate your generator about 10% but it's cost effective.
d) check with local and state governments about permits and their requirements.
e) use an electrician has the highest rated license of your state, bonded, insured, and has workman's comp. Get a contract that requires him to get ALL of the necessary permits and inspections. Pay him when all of the work is installed, permitted, and inspect by the electric utility and government. Trust me on this. if your friend does the work and your house burns down, the insurance company more that likely will not pay

To make a long story short: I went with a 20 Kw Generac with natural gas and Automatic Buss Transfer Switch. The installation was with one of their contractors who was 75 miles away. The local code required two (2) Digital Load Managers (DLM), these isolate the stove when the heat pump is on, the other isolates the clothes dryer when the water is on. The natural gas service costs $7.00 per 1,000 cubic feet. I have never gone over the $7.00 monthly minimum.

Install the generator as close to the gas meter as possible to prevent a pressure loss.


Total cost for everything was $8,500.00.

note: Generac and Kohler had the same size generator with the same warranty. Kohler was my first choice. The contractor, who puts in about 20 a month, said the Generac has less problems
The generator self-checks itself once a week for RPM/frequency, voltage, oil level, and battery voltage (the unit has and installed trickle charger for the battery)
Have the installer come out once a year to check it out and change the oil, filter, etc.

Thats a thorough post Dave- You really covered the bases well. i didnt know some codes required digital load managers for a backup gen but makes sense they would. I wished i lived in a place with good building codes enforcement, unfortuneatly I dont. I hold a Master Electrician License so I would do this work but that is good advice about insurance coverage. I think ill call Generac next week and ask them how i can become a "certified installer"
Thanks

 

[hoz53]

Yes people die from this. I worked in a coal mine for 20 years. Had a faulty tranfer switch on a dragline kill a mine electrician there.

Yeah they do its serious business and nothing to mess with.

 

[Papa Charlie]

where is that plant?

I don't remember off the top of my head. Somewhere back in the midwest I think. It has been many year since I was in that industry. Things may have changed.

 

[hoz53]

I don't remember off the top of my head. Somewhere back in the midwest I think.

ok thanks/

 

[BillPa]

Good info-- I was thinking the same thing- once I buy one I prob wont lose power again. Giood insurance i guess-- Thanks

My wife insisted I buy one four years ago so I picked a 4K at Horrible Freight. I FINALLY had to use it for the first time last March when a wind storm turned sparks off for almost twelve hours.
I'm only need to power the freezer, refrigerator, sump pump and a few lights so the 4 was plenty big enough.
Bill

 

[hoz53]

My wife insisted I buy one four years ago so I picked a 4K at Horrible Freight. I FINALLY had to use it for the first time last March when a wind storm turned sparks off for almost twelve hours.
I'm only need to power the freezer, refrigerator, sump pump and a few lights so the 4 was plenty big enough.
Bill

glad you got some use out it Bill Thanks

 

[snakepit]

I have one of those 38 ft long diesel generators. Actually it is my motorhome. All I have to do is open up my shop door, drive it outside, start up the generator, open up the slides and I have all the comforts of my home.

 

[hoz53]

I have one of those 38 ft long diesel generators. Actually it is my motorhome. All I have to do is open up my shop door, drive it outside, start up the generator, open up the slides and I have all the comforts of my home.

Yeah and youve got a bit more than 5K in it Ill bet- sure would be nice though

 

[M-61]

Wow thats serious stuff- youre brother is lucky to have you. Is that diesal and propane- i didnt quite understand - Thanks

Should have made it clearer. Diesel engine that uses PROPANE for fuel as opposed to using diesel fuel.
Propane tank in back yard holding the fuel the diesel engine uses.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Right and that would be good with me. Thanks

Another thing about running a small gasoline engine on natural gas, it has 10%-15% (as I recall) reduced power, just due to the volume of air and NG that fits in the combustion chamber. So if you are calculating your emergency power needs to the Watt, you'll need to add something like 15% to the size of the gasoline generator you're going to convert to dual fuel. Generator sets that are built to run on NG are speced for the fuel and don't need to be super-sized.

 

[hoz53]

Should have made it clearer. Diesel engine that uses PROPANE for fuel as opposed to using diesel fuel.
Propane tank in back yard holding the fuel the diesel engine uses.

Ok thanks for clearing that up

 

[hoz53]

Another thing about running a small gasoline engine on natural gas, it has 10%-15% (as I recall) reduced power, just due to the volume of air and NG that fits in the combustion chamber. So if you are calculating your emergency power needs to the Watt, you'll need to add something like 15% to the size of the gasoline generator you're going to convert to dual fuel. Generator sets that are built to run on NG are speced for the fuel and don't need to be super-sized.

OK. Thanks for that info-- ive got alot to bone up on

 

[Papa Charlie]

OK. Thanks for that info-- ive got alot to bone up on

Not a big deal, you just calculate the reduction into load evaluation. If we are talking about a 10 kw then you will have 8.5-9.0. Depending on your loads, for example if you have a well pump, they can pull up to 5 times their normal running load at start up. Like wise any other item that starts on a load.
Can't figure out how to copy a url and paste on my tablet, but if you Google "Generator sizing chart for household loads" you will find it. It shows normal running amps and starting amps. When I was in the business, people would be shocked by the size generator they would need for their load.

Edit: Here is the link. http://kohlerpower.com/residential/...onNumber=13561&nodeNumber=1&contentNumber=103

 

[lightman]

I'm a retired Electrical Lineman who was also a licensed Master Electrician. I live and worked in a small town. When I had to retire just about everyone in town that could afford to bought generators. They knew that I would not be replaced and that they would be served from another location, perhaps 50 miles or more away. Longer response times, longer outages, more outages, ect. Most of them bought 20kw Generacs. The newer ones are 22kw. Most have been trouble free and dependable. All except for mine! Mine had a bad control board and could not be programed. When that was replaced the motor threw a rod through the side of the crankcase the first time it started. (yes it had oil in it) Then the transfer switch failed. Then it started running rough and loping and had the throttle body replaced. All of this was under warranty, although it was a slow process.

I looked at all of the options really hard. I have a diesel pickup with 2 batteries and looked at inverters. The bigger ones that you see on work trucks. I have a diesel tractor and looked at PTO driven models. I've installed a few large diesel generators and seriously considered a diesel model. But a diesel is expensive to service. And they can be hard to start when its cold. I didn't want to be out in the weather connecting generators, running cords, monitoring and ordering fuel, ect and decided on the 22kw Generac running on NG. Its nice for it to start up and switch over without me having to do anything. And it does it even when we are away! I think mine was about $5000 for the generator, 200 amp transfer switch and the concrete pad. I hooked it up myself for probably $300 in material. I think the plumber charged me a few hundred dollars to connect the gas.

The guys that did the warranty work on mine told me that they work on other brands and the Generac has no more problems than the other brands. We have a Farm store here that sells Generac so thats the reason that everyone chose Generac. They also stock filters, spark plugs and a few parts for them.

And last but not least, hook it up correctly. Use a transfer switch!!! Forget all of the Bubba methods of double ended cords and all of that BS! Those are dangerous and are also against the National Electric Code.