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FREEDOM BENCHREST

RKS said:
Having an E-target next to a record target seems like an incredible advantage to me. Depending on individual range setup, there can be a substantial difference in conditions when moving up from the clay bank, or steel plate, to the record target itself. In this instance, you are getting definitive feedback.

Interesting.
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mikecockcroft said:
Questions from a private range owner.
How much are match fees, who decides how much the fees are, and who gets to keep them?
Does a portion of match fees go to organization? How much?
Is money paid to winners, trophies or nothing?
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As of now, we believe that we can operate Freedom Benchrest with the sale of advertising and Sponsorships. It’s not our goal to make a profit on the backs of Ranges and Shooters. Each Range has unique costs and expenses and they should be the ones that determine how much revenue they need to maintain their customer base or draw in new members. We have always been a believer that each range should determine how much they should charge their customers, so there is no fee going to Freedom Benchrest.

Only end of year trophies will be supplied by Freedom Benchrest.
Hope this helps
 
Spankey said:
In short range you can see bullet holes and know if you've been crossfired on at a 1000 yds most can't

I don't think any e-target systems will have two target setup . Shot marker the one I'm familiar with will let you shoot sighters and mark them as sighters then you shoot record on the same target . The catch to it is that you can change a sighter to a record or vice versa . So you can manipulate group size and score by changing a sighter to record or erasing a record and sighter shot all together with shot marker if user knows how . One can watch the fclass v1 match you tube video and see shooters designate sighters and record shots with the shot marker e target set up .
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Yes, needs to be a software change.
 
I believe a large portion of 600 yd ranges already use painted steel plates for sighters. The Rendezvous match has proven steel can be used for sighters at 600 and at 1000. So using an etarget isn’t the only way to make the combined sighter/record period work.
 
I dabbled In some BR for a couple years. One thing that was surprising is the different clubs and “world records” for each organization. With it not being an overly popular sport, I would of thought one or two organizations would suffice. Then the nationals would be everyone getting together.
 
jvw2008 said:
I believe a large portion of 600 yd ranges already use painted steel plates for sighters. The Rendezvous match has proven steel can be used for sighters at 600 and at 1000. So using an etarget isn’t the only way to make the combined sighter/record period work.
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Agreed, we use them as well. What I don’t like about them is if you get a big condition change there are times we loose the plate and have to try find it again and make adjustments during the sighter period. Bigger plate would help us but in checking the price on AR plates close to the size of the targets they wound up being about the same price as the shot markers. That is assuming we share the shot markers for both 600 and 1000 and each of those ranges would need separate plates if we went that direction. This is coupled with the challenge of if you are struggling to nail down a lull condition and a strong condition you may have several impact marks on the plate. I have hit those previous marks and not been certain of my impact point. I think the shot marker will let you see each shot as you would with a live pit and spotters, although faster. You can also eliminate the stress of having all the record targets up within one minute of the sighter coming down, as they can already be on the adjacent frame. Of course a lot of this a theory on my part because we have yet to get a full line up and running. I have only shot over my personal shot marker system. I just am looking for a more precise method of identifying impact on sighters than clay pidgins and metal plates.
 
I agree with your thoughts regarding the two rapid response sighter systems. The Shot Marker might be a little more “convenient”. But using either steel or electronic indicators for spot checking sighters is much better, than having no tool available to be able to do that check within a combined sighter/record period. Shooters who use steel sighters routinely, typically learn how to use them very effectively.
I am very much in favor of being able to run a sighter down range at any time during the record period. As Tom said earlier, it will tighten groups and likely elevate scores. I don’t know this for sure, but I believe it will also buffer the unfair affects that can occur with radical changes in conditions as a match progresses. I can see shooters who are normally runners, turn into pickers when faced with erratic or heavier winds later in the day. I also think it will help to level the playing field between runners and pickers.
 
For myself, part of the mystique and challenge of 1000 yard BR shooting is the fact that you cannot see your record rounds impacting the target and you cannot go back to the sighter target once the record period has commenced. I do have reservation's when it comes to changing rules to make the game easier, we want people to shoot their best but it’s supposed to be difficult.

Jim
 
Shooting blind is all we once had. Technology has changed that, with this technology we can see and the sport can and should evolve with the technology.

Not so long ago, F-Class went through these very same growing pains with the use of electronic targets. The shooters there are using the etargets for record rounds/scores. Yes it has error, but lots more ranges can participate because they do not have pits. Lots more older shooters can participate because there is not a requirement to do pit duty in extreme temperatures. Now we are seeing a rise in F-Bench participation because shooters wanting to participate in F-Class are aging and can no longer shoot from the prone position due to arthritis or injury.
If camera systems and etargets help the sport move forward in some small way, or more importantly, allow older shooters who struggle to shoot fast (run) to pick their way through the conditions, I am all for it!

I just wonder what our best and most hard working shooters can accomplish with a full toolkit?

CW
 
Shooting is no different than anything else in our current world. People want better results with less or no effort or sharpening of skills. All that's required is instant gratification. Everyone should reread rhovees post above.
 
In all of my years in NBRSA Competitive Benchrest, I have seen two real “knock down drag out” events.
The first was the serious push to allow Tuners in the center fire formats.
Tuners were adopted.
The second was when establishing VFS as a Registered NBRSA class was proposed. Once again, the fangs came out.
VFS was adopted.

My point is, we worked within the system. There was a lot of push back on both proposals, but rather than “taking our ball and going home”, we worked with our Region Members, The Board of Directors, and came up with good presentations to help achieve a goal.

I came into Benchrest after the NBRSA/IBS split. As a new shooter then, it was difficult to fathom the visceral dislike that some members of the two organizations had towards each other. Regardless of the ‘explanations” that were presented, what it really came down to was hurt feelings and bruised egos.

At a time when both the NBRSA and IBS are beating the bushes for new members, starting a new Organization would seem counterproductive.

Only time will tell.
 
jackieschmidt said:
In all of my years in NBRSA Competitive Benchrest, I have seen two real “knock down drag out” events.
The first was the serious push to allow Tuners in the center fire formats.
Tuners were adopted.
The second was when establishing VFS as a Registered NBRSA class was proposed. Once again, the fangs came out.
VFS was adopted.

My point is, we worked within the system. There was a lot of push back on both proposals, but rather than “taking our ball and going home”, we worked with our Region Members, The Board of Directors, and came up with good presentations to help achieve a goal.

I came into Benchrest after the NBRSA/IBS split. As a new shooter then, it was difficult to fathom the visceral dislike that some members of the two organizations had towards each other. Regardless of the ‘explanations” that were presented, what it really came down to was hurt feelings and bruised egos.

At a time when both the NBRSA and IBS are beating the bushes for new members, starting a new Organization would seem counterproductive.

Only time will tell.
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Jackie, I don’t want to spar with you, but I will ask a couple questions to you. Obviously you have talked with shooters about this situation. How many of the freedom benchrest board members have you talked to about this? Do you feel like you’ve been objective in your opinion without hearing both sides?
A few more questions for you. I’ve been to a few LR matches across our country and never seen you in attendance. Why is LR only Organization a big concern of yours? Please Pick up the phone and call me as to why Freedom Benchrest started rather than listening to one side of the story and considering it the truth. Maybe you’ll reconsider your “hurt feelings and bruised egos” comment. Jim Bauer 316-259-2581
 
@RKS
“I do think more re-shoots, DQ's, and penalties will be seen due to this. We see that enough with guys only being able to shoot at one thing at a time as it is. It will be important for shooters to separate their sighters and record rounds at the bench more than ever.”

I am really not trying to be snarky here. I just wish folks would read what was written in the opening presentation before stating opinions that might not be based on accurate understanding.

There are no DQs in the FBA rules.
 
JBauer said:
Jackie, I don’t want to spar with you, but I will ask a couple questions to you. Obviously you have talked with shooters about this situation. How many of the freedom benchrest board members have you talked to about this? Do you feel like you’ve been objective in your opinion without hearing both sides?
A few more questions for you. I’ve been to a few LR matches across our country and never seen you in attendance. Why is LR only Organization a big concern of yours? Please Pick up the phone and call me as to why Freedom Benchrest started rather than listening to one side of the story and considering it the truth. Maybe you’ll reconsider your “hurt feelings and bruised egos” comment. Jim Bauer 316-259-2581
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I don’t want to spar with you either, but I support Benchrest in general. Although I predominantly Shoot Short Range Group and Score, I do not differentiate between NBRSA, IBS, Long Range, or Short Range Group and Score. It is all part of Benchrest Shooting.

If you hurt one Discipline, you hurt the entire Sanctioning Body.

We have two viable Sanctioning Bodies that through the years have refined the Formats and the Rules governing Competition to insure fair and reasonable standards that can be recognized by not only national but world wide entities.

Rather than work within the rules governing the two major Sanctioning Bodies, You have chosen to start your own Organization.

Your reasons for taking this course of action are immaterial.
 
No with that explanation it seems you have a good understanding. Other readers may not though. So I don’t feel it’s helpful to make a misstatement regarding DQ’s regardless of how you interpret assessment of a penalty. Others, including me would prefer to take a penalty then automatically and immediately being disqualified from the match. Some of the wind my shooters compete in can be horrendous. I have seen one whole relay DQ. A penalty assessment would have been a good tool in that situation.
 
alf said:
A long time ago on BRC, a blowhard from out east stated:

"If you don't like the way we do things, go start your own organization".

So it's finally coming to fruition......
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There are self centered pre madonnas in every organization.

He was wrong then, and wrong now.
 
jackieschmidt said:
I don’t want to spar with you either, but I support Benchrest in general. Although I predominantly Shoot Short Range Group and Score, I do not differentiate between NBRSA, IBS, Long Range, or Short Range Group and Score. It is all part of Benchrest Shooting.

If you hurt one Discipline, you hurt the entire Sanctioning Body.

We have two viable Sanctioning Bodies that through the years have refined the Formats and the Rules governing Competition to insure fair and reasonable standards that can be recognized by not only national but world wide entities.

Rather than work within the rules governing the two major Sanctioning Bodies, You have chosen to start your own Organization.

Your reasons for taking this course of action are immaterial.
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“Your reasons for taking this course of actions are immaterial” dang Jackie, that sounds a lot like Socialism. Just shut up and work for the Company. Pay your membership and match fees and do what you’re told.

That kind of statement is most of the motive behind Freedom.
 
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