EXACTLY!JRS said:
Five Things You Do Not Know About Sniper Rifles
- Thread starter snakepit
- Start date
They just make movies, go on CNN/ and write books. Actually a crtain group wont STFU.
JRS said:
I will add to this that the military snipers are not shooting for score; they are shooting for their lives and the lives of the men and women on this side of the war(s). To that end, trying to compare scores, x-ring hits, etc, is comparing apples to oranges. I would wager that given the same equipment and conditions, the majority of us will FAIL in their environment, while the majority of them will thrive in ours. Center of mass = mission completion and lives saved. X-ring = bragging.
hpshooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Snuggie .308, my hat is off and my hand is on my heart when I hear about fellows like your son in law. You are a lucky man to have this fellow in your family.
With regard to some comments that have been posted about our true snipers ability to shot and their dedication to precision I offer the following:
More than a few years ago I attended a few high power clinics at Quantico and was able to meet Gunny Thomas Gilbert who was in charge of the rifle team loading facility. They had a load developed for every .300 mag bull gun that they shot at long range, had pallet boxes of .300 mag brass were weighing cases prepping primer pockets, trimming necks and loading on co axial presses. They tested from a machine rest in the test shed and had the ability to take pressure readings on the loads at any temperature they chose. Anyone who underestimates the military teams ability to develop loads and put them down range has a lot of learning ahead of them. BTW, this was in the dark ages when they were still shooting the M14 across the course and they were doing the same load work up for them for long range. In addition to the loading facility the RTE (rifle team equipment shop) had equally dedicated smiths building bull guns, M14's and M40's. and match 1911's. Both the USMC and the AMU have the ability and desire to build very accurate firearms for both match and service applications and they have excellent marksmen on the competitive teams and serving as snipers.
Respectfully,
T W Hudson
Virginia
With regard to some comments that have been posted about our true snipers ability to shot and their dedication to precision I offer the following:
More than a few years ago I attended a few high power clinics at Quantico and was able to meet Gunny Thomas Gilbert who was in charge of the rifle team loading facility. They had a load developed for every .300 mag bull gun that they shot at long range, had pallet boxes of .300 mag brass were weighing cases prepping primer pockets, trimming necks and loading on co axial presses. They tested from a machine rest in the test shed and had the ability to take pressure readings on the loads at any temperature they chose. Anyone who underestimates the military teams ability to develop loads and put them down range has a lot of learning ahead of them. BTW, this was in the dark ages when they were still shooting the M14 across the course and they were doing the same load work up for them for long range. In addition to the loading facility the RTE (rifle team equipment shop) had equally dedicated smiths building bull guns, M14's and M40's. and match 1911's. Both the USMC and the AMU have the ability and desire to build very accurate firearms for both match and service applications and they have excellent marksmen on the competitive teams and serving as snipers.
Respectfully,
T W Hudson
Virginia
TW Hudson, you are correct. As an old Army I have complete respect and am amazed at what the MC does with the scraps that fall off the table from the Navy and a lot of Army hand me down equipment. Their Armorers are top notch for sure.
hpshooter
Gold $$ Contributor
You are spot on with that thought, The 1000 yard range at Quantico has some very tricky winds at times and there are several "hides" at the edges of the range that those guys practice from. It would be great fun and a fantastic learning experience to pair up with one of those fellows and shoot a practice session with their equipment and their input.
Such a thing may have been possible when Col. Land ran the ranges but I doubt if it could happen now.
Such a thing may have been possible when Col. Land ran the ranges but I doubt if it could happen now.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a lot of respect for military snipers as my wife's cousin was a Scout Sniper in the USMC. I do however, lack a certain level of respect for the wanna-be's.
An example from my personal experience with a 'Joe blow wanna-be commando' :
I was at the range doing some initial load testing at 100 yards for a hunting rifle when I noticed this fella shooting a rifle poorly painted in desert camo from a drab green shooting mat he had laid out on the ground. He was shooting at a small steel plate from the prone position on a Harris bipod at 600 yards. He kept shooting and shooting and I couldn't help but notice that I never once heard a report from the bullet contacting the steel as I know it does. So in between a couple load recipes, I watched his form. There was an obvious flinch with zero follow through. He would shoot and immediately after the round went off, would bring his head up off the stock and eject the spent round to get another one. After he had shot nearly 3/4 of a box from his factory ammo he came over and asked me what I was shooting since he was intrigued by the massive muzzle report of my 358 Norma Magnum. So I showed it to him and told him a bit about it, then he started in on how something was wrong with his gun and how it just wouldn't hit the target. Mostly blaming the ammo because surely his new rifle was God's gift to the shooting world :
It was a factory HOWA 308 with the Axiom stock that he had just bought and tried to make look like a military rifle. He was wearing his cheap camo pants and some ridiculous tactical vest as most them do, but I wasn't going to judge by appearances. For all I knew, maybe the gun really was off? He actually had a pretty nice Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 scope, so I figured that wasn't the issue. After trying to give him some friendly pointers, our coversation turned into him wanting ME to shoot his gun for him at the target. Now I knew he was sure something was wrong with the rifle and and the only reason he wanted me to try it is so that he could prove to himself that it wasn't him after he witnessed me miss as well. So I figured, what the heck, I'll humor him and get to shoot a new gun. If it's off, no big deal and he can feel better about it. So I laid down and dry fired the trigger. He said, "there's nothing in it". I said, "I know". Then I explained to him how I never fire an unfamiliar rifle without getting a feel for the trigger. This was a new concept to him of course. So I dry fired the horribly heavy factory trigger a couple more times, went over the drop chart on the ammo box and questioned him about what distance it was sighted in at before chambering a round. Not wanting to look like an a**, I took every precaution to go through all the steps of proper shooting technique in my head a few times before shouldering the rifle again. I settled in, went through my breathing cycle and carefully began squeezing the trigger.....BANG! I made sure to maintain position on the rifle after recoil, then about a second or so later, I heard the undeniable sound return to us..WHACK! "Well", I said, "it seems to be ok". He couldn't believe it! So he went back to shooting the last 5 or so rounds in the box with no sucess. I just smirked and wished him the best of luck with his new rifle and went on my way 8)
An example from my personal experience with a 'Joe blow wanna-be commando' :
I was at the range doing some initial load testing at 100 yards for a hunting rifle when I noticed this fella shooting a rifle poorly painted in desert camo from a drab green shooting mat he had laid out on the ground. He was shooting at a small steel plate from the prone position on a Harris bipod at 600 yards. He kept shooting and shooting and I couldn't help but notice that I never once heard a report from the bullet contacting the steel as I know it does. So in between a couple load recipes, I watched his form. There was an obvious flinch with zero follow through. He would shoot and immediately after the round went off, would bring his head up off the stock and eject the spent round to get another one. After he had shot nearly 3/4 of a box from his factory ammo he came over and asked me what I was shooting since he was intrigued by the massive muzzle report of my 358 Norma Magnum. So I showed it to him and told him a bit about it, then he started in on how something was wrong with his gun and how it just wouldn't hit the target. Mostly blaming the ammo because surely his new rifle was God's gift to the shooting world :
It was a factory HOWA 308 with the Axiom stock that he had just bought and tried to make look like a military rifle. He was wearing his cheap camo pants and some ridiculous tactical vest as most them do, but I wasn't going to judge by appearances. For all I knew, maybe the gun really was off? He actually had a pretty nice Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 scope, so I figured that wasn't the issue. After trying to give him some friendly pointers, our coversation turned into him wanting ME to shoot his gun for him at the target. Now I knew he was sure something was wrong with the rifle and and the only reason he wanted me to try it is so that he could prove to himself that it wasn't him after he witnessed me miss as well. So I figured, what the heck, I'll humor him and get to shoot a new gun. If it's off, no big deal and he can feel better about it. So I laid down and dry fired the trigger. He said, "there's nothing in it". I said, "I know". Then I explained to him how I never fire an unfamiliar rifle without getting a feel for the trigger. This was a new concept to him of course. So I dry fired the horribly heavy factory trigger a couple more times, went over the drop chart on the ammo box and questioned him about what distance it was sighted in at before chambering a round. Not wanting to look like an a**, I took every precaution to go through all the steps of proper shooting technique in my head a few times before shouldering the rifle again. I settled in, went through my breathing cycle and carefully began squeezing the trigger.....BANG! I made sure to maintain position on the rifle after recoil, then about a second or so later, I heard the undeniable sound return to us..WHACK! "Well", I said, "it seems to be ok". He couldn't believe it! So he went back to shooting the last 5 or so rounds in the box with no sucess. I just smirked and wished him the best of luck with his new rifle and went on my way 8)Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I bet the majority of snipershide.com are Glock fanaticas
Ray
Ray
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Joe Salt said:
I know, I'm just flaming the fire.. This is my winter entertainment..
It is kinda the same story though, the wannabee tacticools and power rangers think the only thing that can shoot is their plastic Blocks..
Ray
Best lay off the Southern angle, bub
10-4..Roger that. I just noticed how old it is. It's getting close to my bed time. Think I'll commandeer the wife for a 10-15. If I'm lucky..a 10-16.Revival of a ZOMBIE thread....
Click here to translate. http://www.angelfire.com/sc/scannerpost/10codes.html
No disrespect to our military here. But the wanabees are hilarious.
Well i must admit the whole tactical thing is kind of funny to me. Grown men dressed up like they are going into combat showing up at the range with their ARs and tactical chassis fitted rifles.
Go to a public range and most are shooting 16" ARs at the 50 yrd targets off sand bags at zombies and can barely keep their shots on a silhouette target.
The others are shooting .308s with 18" barrels with a muzzle brake. Blasting those beside them with their muzzle blast.
And they look at my wood stocked bench gun like it is some exotic animal.
To each his own.
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
Had that experience last week. Guys with bullpups and cans, 511's and silly hats, duty boots, girlfriends with too much ballast wearing jean shorts and tattoos, all popping steel case ammo at 100 yard targets the size of a b52 tail, and just making dust. When I pulled out my yellow bench rifle i bet they thought I was one of those pink hat wearing fools. My daughter shot a group in the 3's. Ok, did not win the bench match, but the blaster next to us took note. To him I was a fat old fart out of touch. All I could think was "there was a time I could get prone and hit your stupid target with irons at 600". Beware the old fart. I shot my group on his target and left. 
Old guys rule!
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