Tell us what you know and we'll tell you what you don't know
Five Things You Do Not Know About Sniper Rifles
- Thread starter snakepit
- Start date
That's simple. A good sniper is never afraid to call for artillery support!Ok Geno, I'll take a stab at it!
So, if I am too broken to prone, too fat to kneel, too wobbly to stand, can I still build a tacticool gun and wear a floppy hat and be a sniper? Oh, nevermind, it's not me, its the gun. What was I thinking?
The two disciplines, military sniping and precision shooting that we participate in, are really two different animals and I have a great amount of respect for both. A military sniper needs to make it count on the first cold bore round. Us precision shooters roll to the line with our 20 pound rifles and then proceed to put the front end in a 25 pound front rest and the rear on a 7 pound bag. We then proceed to fire off several sighters before "going for record".
To me a military sniper, who has had hours and hours of training, is more of a hunter than a precision shooter. He gets one shot to make it count. Failure could cost him his life.
When I tell people about the long range matches i participate in they, not all but a good number, will say "like a sniper". I say no, not anything like a sniper.
To me a military sniper, who has had hours and hours of training, is more of a hunter than a precision shooter. He gets one shot to make it count. Failure could cost him his life.
When I tell people about the long range matches i participate in they, not all but a good number, will say "like a sniper". I say no, not anything like a sniper.
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I like it when guys with more money than brains build 12lbs. to 16lbs. light mountain hunting rifles. Never fails they end up with bipods, huge Nightforce scopes, steel bases and rings that you can hammer 16p nails with and a detectable 10 round magazine. Usually they claim they want to hunt Elk and Sheep at 1500++ yards with either a 6.5CM or 7-378Wby Operation Danger Close Super Magnum AI. Oh the other use when not shooting from a concrete slab in the Rocky Mountains would be to shoot from a helicopter. These rifles almost always look like they would be better on the battle field than hunting. I forgot they also need to have a suppressor on the rifle.
I know when I was young before the 3 ankle surgeries, knee surgery and torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders I always dreamed of humping my F-Open rifle or TR rifle into the Mountains to hunt! Even on horse back I would not want to pack those beasts. Even funnier since my F-Open is not using a bipod imagine that set-up time and weight! LOL
Imagine these guys with 10 shots detachable magazines doing a tactical reload on an Elk after missing each shot or just peppering the poor animal in it's extremities.
It amazes me how much mass and gear is needed to get off hopefully one super accurate cold bore shot with the possible need for a quick follow-up shot! Oh no I need to change my ammo I had 6.5CM Raufoss Rounds in my 16lbs. light mountain hunting rifle in case I ran into an Elk hiding behind a cinder block wall but now he is out in the open! Good thing I have another 10 round mage with Hornady ELDX bullets hand!
I wonder if these guys practice keyhole shots on Elk through a brick wall??? LOL
Link to 12 Factory Light Weight HUnting Rifles between 5.2lbs and 6.6lbs. Just in case some of the youngersters on here do not know what a hunting rifle looks like compared to a and I hate to use the term "tactical" rifle. https://www.fieldandstream.com/12-lightweight-rifles-for-every-budget/
Mauser, is it ok if we at least put a "tactical" scope on one of those light weight hunting rifles?
Got any pics of YOUR rigs ? I would love to see what you think is proper.
As mentioned, a sniper is only partly an expert marksman. He is also many things related to scouting and intelligence gathering and just staying alive. A HP match shooter need not range a target. Nor be sure it's the right bad guy instead of a mother with baby. (and let's be honest, how many of us have STILL hit the wrong target?.
Match shooters have the luxury of debating barrel brands, rifling designs, twist rates, BC, etc. Snipers have none of those. Yes, it's a precision rifle they use and the ammo is highly developed and precisely loaded. But it's entirely beyond the sniper's control. He must make the shot on unknown distance and conditions that can change RADICALLY because he might have to wait *days* for the shot to present itself. Not really comparable to a bit of wind shift in a slow fire prone.
For the sniper, mission success is only partly achieving a lethal hit on target. There's also the surviving part.
Match shooters have the luxury of indulging all manner of minutiae because they are far less highly constrained. It's legitimate competition, but the boundary conditions defining the shooting context of sniping vs match shooting really make them completely separate skill sets. About the only thing common to both circles on the Venn diagram is that you have to be able to read wind and give clean trigger technique or you likely won't have success.
A sniper might not even be the better marksman, because his job only requires being a "good enough" marksman, and nobody is scoring 9s vs 10s vs Xs. But you bet your life that sniper can perform his duty under much more challenging conditions than most match shooters. Try scoring well in an F-class final at Perry having not eaten for days, going on maybe 4 hours sleep in the last 48 hours, with parasitic critters crawling on you.
They are different skill sets, with only a bit of marksmanship in common.
Match shooters have the luxury of debating barrel brands, rifling designs, twist rates, BC, etc. Snipers have none of those. Yes, it's a precision rifle they use and the ammo is highly developed and precisely loaded. But it's entirely beyond the sniper's control. He must make the shot on unknown distance and conditions that can change RADICALLY because he might have to wait *days* for the shot to present itself. Not really comparable to a bit of wind shift in a slow fire prone.
For the sniper, mission success is only partly achieving a lethal hit on target. There's also the surviving part.
Match shooters have the luxury of indulging all manner of minutiae because they are far less highly constrained. It's legitimate competition, but the boundary conditions defining the shooting context of sniping vs match shooting really make them completely separate skill sets. About the only thing common to both circles on the Venn diagram is that you have to be able to read wind and give clean trigger technique or you likely won't have success.
A sniper might not even be the better marksman, because his job only requires being a "good enough" marksman, and nobody is scoring 9s vs 10s vs Xs. But you bet your life that sniper can perform his duty under much more challenging conditions than most match shooters. Try scoring well in an F-class final at Perry having not eaten for days, going on maybe 4 hours sleep in the last 48 hours, with parasitic critters crawling on you.
They are different skill sets, with only a bit of marksmanship in common.
hpshooter
Gold $$ Contributor
"Heads"
I think that is a Northern thing. Had a good shooting friend that moved south from NJ. He was 15 years senior to me and moved his machine tools, reloading gear, casting gear for bullets and many firearms to Va. Built many rifles before he died, cast and reloaded thousands of rounds of ammunition. Very experienced but was constantly referring to the bullets as "heads". Low and behold, several year later another NJ political refugee joined our range and the first time I meet him he wanted to know the best place in our area was to by his powder, primers and "heads".
Thankfully they both left their Jersey politics in Jersey, the "heads" term is less irritating to me than the use of "clips" when referring to magazines. We all have our trigger points regarding terminology.
I think that is a Northern thing. Had a good shooting friend that moved south from NJ. He was 15 years senior to me and moved his machine tools, reloading gear, casting gear for bullets and many firearms to Va. Built many rifles before he died, cast and reloaded thousands of rounds of ammunition. Very experienced but was constantly referring to the bullets as "heads". Low and behold, several year later another NJ political refugee joined our range and the first time I meet him he wanted to know the best place in our area was to by his powder, primers and "heads".
Thankfully they both left their Jersey politics in Jersey, the "heads" term is less irritating to me than the use of "clips" when referring to magazines. We all have our trigger points regarding terminology.
Danger close is another one of the tacticool crowds favorite terms to throw out. I’m friends with a guy who actually had to call in a “danger close” air strike on his position. He’s survived... He’s now 100% medically retired. Blind in his right eye , skull crushed , burns , suffers from terrible vertigo and full of shrapnel.
He’s scheduled for surgery next week to remove some shrapnel from his back that’s causing septicemia and swelling that’s causing terrible back pain. VA has dragged it out almost a year now. I really wish Hollywood would stop glorifying “snipers/SEALS/etc. Our target shooting disciplines have little in common with snipers. Wish these wannabe snipers would just stop and instead just be serious about shooting a being the best they can be. There’s nothing glamorous about the job of “sniper”.
BTW , I’m worried about my friend. He’s going to have to have this surgery while still suffering from the septicemia. There’s real danger that complications could be really bad or fatal. He’s got a wife , infant and a three year old counting on him. Put a prayer in for him and all the guys just like him.
He’s scheduled for surgery next week to remove some shrapnel from his back that’s causing septicemia and swelling that’s causing terrible back pain. VA has dragged it out almost a year now. I really wish Hollywood would stop glorifying “snipers/SEALS/etc. Our target shooting disciplines have little in common with snipers. Wish these wannabe snipers would just stop and instead just be serious about shooting a being the best they can be. There’s nothing glamorous about the job of “sniper”.
BTW , I’m worried about my friend. He’s going to have to have this surgery while still suffering from the septicemia. There’s real danger that complications could be really bad or fatal. He’s got a wife , infant and a three year old counting on him. Put a prayer in for him and all the guys just like him.
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I am a beginner (albeit, born in '61). I'm finding this thread quite interesting. Although, I could never get my head wrapped around this 'sniper' thing. To me, that is something wholly unrelated to what I have always considered sport shooting. In the early 70's I was introduced to target rifle shooting. We competed in Jr. NRA matches against other towns, and eventually High schools, with the simple goal of getting 10/10 ten ring shots.
Military films were a far off form of entertainment and I don't think any of us even considered a connection. Fast forward to today and I continue to work on marksmanship skills and hitting targets. The distance increases as a demonstration of competitive skill, nothing more. I'm reminded of Track and Field events, at no time would a javelin thrower consider themselves a hunter. Similarly, I'm falling into the assumption that those that wish to consider a 'sniper' are those that play more video games.
I mean, geesh, even in paintball there were little kids that wanted to be a sniper and in that space there is no team position of that design. We merely realized that the smaller kids just wanted to hold back and not get 'hit'. It was a simple matter of confidence. After a few games, and a few well placed suggestions. that grew out of that mindset and became excellent teammates.
With all this said, I found the video historically fascinating and was pleased to learn something new about our military history.
Military films were a far off form of entertainment and I don't think any of us even considered a connection. Fast forward to today and I continue to work on marksmanship skills and hitting targets. The distance increases as a demonstration of competitive skill, nothing more. I'm reminded of Track and Field events, at no time would a javelin thrower consider themselves a hunter. Similarly, I'm falling into the assumption that those that wish to consider a 'sniper' are those that play more video games.
I mean, geesh, even in paintball there were little kids that wanted to be a sniper and in that space there is no team position of that design. We merely realized that the smaller kids just wanted to hold back and not get 'hit'. It was a simple matter of confidence. After a few games, and a few well placed suggestions. that grew out of that mindset and became excellent teammates.
With all this said, I found the video historically fascinating and was pleased to learn something new about our military history.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Dave Tooley on this forum would be a good guy to post about this. Most of you know Dave's history.
I had a neighbor that was the "sniper" guy for the ATF. When we went to the range he would take his nasty looking 40X in 308. Nasty, I mean well worn! We set up at 200 yards and his first 5 shots were in the forehead of his target, probably .750 center to center. He put his rifle up and we shot mine the rest of the day.
The event escapes me, but most of you will remember the guy that hid out in the woods in the southeast somewhere about 20yrs ago. He avoided capture for several years. He lay in a hide for a long time, but never saw him. I won't share my friend's name other than to say he was the son of Tom Wilson, a former Corsicana HS and Texas A&M head coach.
I had a neighbor that was the "sniper" guy for the ATF. When we went to the range he would take his nasty looking 40X in 308. Nasty, I mean well worn! We set up at 200 yards and his first 5 shots were in the forehead of his target, probably .750 center to center. He put his rifle up and we shot mine the rest of the day.
The event escapes me, but most of you will remember the guy that hid out in the woods in the southeast somewhere about 20yrs ago. He avoided capture for several years. He lay in a hide for a long time, but never saw him. I won't share my friend's name other than to say he was the son of Tom Wilson, a former Corsicana HS and Texas A&M head coach.
Haha!
Hey now... I managed a 389/400 on the 600y line F-class target with a Wylde AR and a barska! I'm always happy to see anyone on the line as long as safety first, and a small dose of humility as we're all just subjects to the master temptress Wind.
Recreational and competitive target shooters generally do recognize their sport is not akin to occupational sniping. The work and fitness maintained by military snipers is no doubt hard, and in modern times they do it for pay and by choice, while we are all doing jobs they are not doing, which hopefully mutually benefit the other in the big picture.
There shouldn’t be any turf war or tension as if there is a walled-off pool of knowledge and skills, that the other group could never fathom. Snipers, and it’s not as if this is a large number of guys being spoken for, I am sure do recognize that we spend our money and personal time studying and practicing elements of the shooting craft that they consider to be required skills and paycheck work. Even though our matches don’t require it, posters don’t sell short the fact that quite a few of us mere match hobbyists are not only cold bore crack shots but pretty formidable, resourceful and watchful guys and gals in the silent majority who could have but didn’t join up and are not necessarily doing something less rigorous.
There shouldn’t be any turf war or tension as if there is a walled-off pool of knowledge and skills, that the other group could never fathom. Snipers, and it’s not as if this is a large number of guys being spoken for, I am sure do recognize that we spend our money and personal time studying and practicing elements of the shooting craft that they consider to be required skills and paycheck work. Even though our matches don’t require it, posters don’t sell short the fact that quite a few of us mere match hobbyists are not only cold bore crack shots but pretty formidable, resourceful and watchful guys and gals in the silent majority who could have but didn’t join up and are not necessarily doing something less rigorous.
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