First Tuner test results
- Thread starter JamesnTN
- Start date
The biggest mistake I see with tuners is making too big an adjustment, I make and use tuners on my F Class guns, they are heavier than the type being used here but the principles the same. On my own rifles, I start without the tuner on the barrel and tune as I would normally using powder charge and seating depth until I get a consistent ROUND group that has good velocity numbers. I then load up 30 rounds and wind the tuner onto the barrel (normally all the way on and then out to the first zero mark), I then set a target at 200 and fire 1 shot and then another and if they don't touch I wind the tuner out 1 mark (0.003") and fire another round and continue until they are touching and the group is tight and round. I then continue to wind the tuner out until the group starts to open and then I wind back the tuner back to the "centre of that node". I then continue to test at the longer ranges and fine tune (1 or 2 marks either way) but in most cases with the heavier tuners I haven't seen the need to adjust for different ranges.
Matt P
Matt P
billlarson
"Hold Into The Wind"
well this is my first time setting up and testing a tuner. My load is 33.8 grains of LRM and a CCI 400 using the 105 Hybrids.
I set up at 200 yards to do the test. I sure didn't like what I saw in today's test. What I did was I started at "0" on the tuner. Per instructions from a highly noted BR guy here I marked the tuner into four quadrants and then I'd shoot 2 shots at Q1 then move to Q2 and so forth. From there I was suppose to work with the best group but not knowing I kept adjusting the tuner back to same Quadrant settings just screwing it out further each time. So what you see in the target is when i show a different Q1-4 that's another turn out on the tuner. Anyhow after myself and my help analyzing what I shot we decided to work within Q4 and Q1 at the end of the second turn and beginning of the third from "0"
So tomorrow I'll go back to Q4 one turn out from "0" and fine tweak it from there. If anyone has added suggestions all is most helpful.
Here's the photo
Now on Q2 bottom left target shows one hole but the other shot for what ever reason nearly went off the paper. I failed to get it in the first pic.
Here's a close up of the shot
Again I'm really not liking anything here this rifle was shooting right at 1" at 500 yards with only a brake installed.
Jim...... Harrels brake/tuners require boring outboard hole .020" over bullet diameter before use.......
could bullets be hitting tuners....????
bill larson
falconpilot
Gold $$ Contributor
Just a question.. Is there any way the bullets could be hitting anything on the inside of the tuner on their way out? The bullet holes in the target you posted look way to be...like they are very unstable when passing through the target, leaving bigger, unclean holes
Matt, I see guys post about this from time to time. Why would you take the time to work up a load without the tuner on the barrel in the first place? You're advocating using a ring that is moved .003" makes a difference but you're basically saying that going from bare muzzle to hanging maybe 8oz. on it does nothing to change the load? It's not just you, I see others post the same thing and I just don't get it.
Jason
IME you can't just throw a load together and expect the tuner to make a average load tight, you could well have the tuner on and do your load development and then fine tune with the tuner. I just use my method because it has worked for me. What I find is I can make the "load window" bigger, so if I have a bad day at the loading bench it's not so much of a problem. The other thing is and this is more of an issue for F Class, is the load I use at home can be fine tuned if needed when I travel 10 hrs north and find for what ever reason the load doesn't quite work as well as I'd like, I have some adjustability as reloading a few 100 rounds away from home isn't an option. The tuners I use are around 10-12 oz.
I have one customer who does chronograph testing under his house using a magnetospeed, gets his numbers where he wants them and then goes to the range and then tries a few seating depths and then fine tunes with the tuner, so there are a few different methods that work.
Regards
Matt P
IME you can't just throw a load together and expect the tuner to make a average load tight, you could well have the tuner on and do your load development and then fine tune with the tuner. I just use my method because it has worked for me. What I find is I can make the "load window" bigger, so if I have a bad day at the loading bench it's not so much of a problem. The other thing is and this is more of an issue for F Class, is the load I use at home can be fine tuned if needed when I travel 10 hrs north and find for what ever reason the load doesn't quite work as well as I'd like, I have some adjustability as reloading a few 100 rounds away from home isn't an option. The tuners I use are around 10-12 oz.
I have one customer who does chronograph testing under his house using a magnetospeed, gets his numbers where he wants them and then goes to the range and then tries a few seating depths and then fine tunes with the tuner, so there are a few different methods that work.
Regards
Matt P
Jason,
Before I put a tuner on I want to know what the barrel is capable of. So I tune the barrel and get it shooting as good as possible. Then I put the tuner on the gun. If I can't get the tuner to shoot as good as the naked barrel. Then off it comes. I have had a handful of barrels that shot better with the tuner off. Also I've never had a tuner make a barrel shoot better then what I could tune one the old fashioned way.
I can see where the tuner could really help someone that isn't as proficient tuning with just powder and seating depth.
Another thing that gets over looked on this board is what caliber and what sport are you tuning for. For example the 30BR is probably the easiest cartridge that I have ever tuned and it wants to stay in tune. I can see where someone shooting the 30br could put in a pet load and do a little tweaking with the tuner and be right there. I think dashers and 6ppcs reqire a bit more work.
Bart
Hi Gabe! I do threading and fitting, but it's a damn near impossibility to know what I'm doing or when, to schedule doing one while you wait. I would be happy to schedule a time to help anyone with tuner usage. I love putting some of the non-sense that I read on the various forums to rest, on this subject. I will only say that I am in a small group of people that have extensive experience with tuners, both from a practical usage standpoint as well as doing vibration analysis testing. I can easily count this group on one hand, that I'm aware of. I try to refrain from giving out definitive advice for using tuners other than my own. There are enough variables relative to individual guns, without introducing all of the different tuner variables, such as thread pitch, reference mark spacing, tuner weight and tuner location..to mention a few. In a nutshell, we are timing barrel location with bullet exit, regardless of who's tuner is used. IMHO, this is exactly what we are doing with traditional tuning methods, too. The only two differences between a bare barrel, tuning traditionally, and a tunered barrel, is the extra mass at the end of the cantilevered beam and it being adjustable.
That brings up a point that has been touched upon in this thread...that being, tuning any load to shoot in a gun by moving a tuner. Basically, it's just like tuning without one...If your barrel doesn't like a given bullet, for example..a tuner is not likely to change that. The only instance that it will, is if it was a tune issue all along.---Mike Ezell
Thanks to you all that replied and sent me PM's and for offering to help one on one.
I'm pretty sure the tuner brake I used just don't work. I unscrewed it and put on my brake and drove to the Dasher Dome for some friendship get together and shooting. I took the dasher used in the tuner testing here and shot this 3 shot group at 100 yards and then just put it away.
Shot one shot then used the hole as an aiming point then shot the next 3 nearly in one hole.
I'm pretty sure the tuner brake I used just don't work. I unscrewed it and put on my brake and drove to the Dasher Dome for some friendship get together and shooting. I took the dasher used in the tuner testing here and shot this 3 shot group at 100 yards and then just put it away.
Shot one shot then used the hole as an aiming point then shot the next 3 nearly in one hole.
I'm jealous! I need to get over and see my friends at the Dasher Dome..haven't seen Birddog, Doc and company in way too long!Thanks to you all that replied and sent me PM's and for offering to help one on one.
I'm pretty sure the tuner brake I used just don't work. I unscrewed it and put on my brake and drove to the Dasher Dome for some friendship get together and shooting. I took the dasher used in the tuner testing here and shot this 3 shot group at 100 yards and then just put it away.
Shot one shot then used the hole as an aiming point then shot the next 3 nearly in one hole.
They bored it out before it was shipped to me.
Bart, you said a mouthful with this sentence. I just don't seem to get the results I need from "conventional" load development.
Jason,
There you go! Lots of different ways to use a tuner! Everyone just needs to figure out what works best for them.
All I know is, that if possible, I want one on my gun when I go to the line! That's for long or short Range!
Bart
Eric Bostrom does a modification to the Harrell tuner/break that helps it. He creates a chamber inside the brake to get rid of all the tight passages that are a pain to clean and can affect pressures at the barrel crown. The plain tuner does not have that problem.
Saturday after our gong shoot . I ask a new shooter if would like to shoot and tune a new 40x action with a unknown. Barrel .
The brass had ben fired I one of my other dashers. First 2 shot was over 1 " vertical Next 2 at different aim point Was almost the same . He turned tuner one number . The next was favoring horizontal with a bullet vertical . His next movement was 1/2 number . The next two was over lapping a half of bullet width . I told him to take to 600 . 4 shot and he was on the gong . He hit 9 of 10 shots .
New shooter new gun new tuner . Totally of 8 Shots .
This is common to do with a RAS tuner .
Larry
The brass had ben fired I one of my other dashers. First 2 shot was over 1 " vertical Next 2 at different aim point Was almost the same . He turned tuner one number . The next was favoring horizontal with a bullet vertical . His next movement was 1/2 number . The next two was over lapping a half of bullet width . I told him to take to 600 . 4 shot and he was on the gong . He hit 9 of 10 shots .
New shooter new gun new tuner . Totally of 8 Shots .
This is common to do with a RAS tuner .
Larry
Last edited by a moderator:
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
I was at that shoot and witnessed the RAS tuner, new shooter and that old 40X. True.
What you can do with an Eric Bostrom tuner is quite remarkable.
What you can do with an Eric Bostrom tuner is quite remarkable.
Thank for the use of your target. He said the bullets we're touching . I know he would wore me out in the shoot . If he had shot the gun . Larry
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