Jet
Gold $$ Contributor
Just giving you a bad time. I think you meant 0.2 increments instead of 0.02 increments for charge weight.![]()
Thanks. That might be a problem. Will correct the typo.
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Just giving you a bad time. I think you meant 0.2 increments instead of 0.02 increments for charge weight.![]()
because "often" they do fall apart, not always the case but enough so that his statement or point is valid..I was asking why u said light charges fall apart at distance .
that group is trying to lump them upView attachment 1102782
Ok ! Shot 28.5, 28.7, 28.9 and 29.1 !
Heres a pic of 28.7 , measured .5 ! YOWZA ! All other loads were in the x ring .
that group is trying to lump them up
I think some might be missing the point here but I will try to explain. if you have shot a powder ladder at a yardage of say 400 yards and closer and you have several charge weights at that distance that are "winners" or did not flounder that is great it often will unfold in such a manner as this nice work. But as you extend the yardage by double say 800 yard ore better 1000 yards these ladders will not be so buddy like or have the same affinity to hit the same quadrant on target and carry sound grouping. in my personal case I will 85% rough a rifle in at the 800 yard distance and often I will have three charges that are in fact very close in size and impact quadrant but more often than not as I stack on just 200 more yards the bottom part of my 800 yard ladder in fact will flounder or shit the bed its just how it is when I shoot the same ladder at the 1000 yard distance.... the further you go the worse it will become draw the yardage in 500 or less and the distance is not enough to see the negative but if you look close enough and shoot even that distance you will find good and bad in them as well.
Shawn Williams
It may very well hold up further out 200 yards on the short end is more forgiving and cartridge still has a lot of pep left. shoot it and find out but if your not sure I would load and compare results from 5 & 6 on your charge ladder. good luck shooting and let us know what you come up with.The farthest I can shoot is 500 yards . Do u think this load will be ok at 500 ? Or will i need to do another work up ? It’s difficult at this distance being a novice shooter to know whether your shots are on target or if it’s a flier when doing a work up . I mean , there is a chance that 5 shot 1/2” group was a fluke ! Right ?
If I may politely weigh back in, I shouldn’t have left you hanging and for that I apologize.
Rusty, Jet and Shawn are all accomplished long range shooters so when they tell me something about testing or tuning or make a suggestion on technic,I listen very carefully. (Thanks guys)
I’m not an expert by any means however (My) Rifle through testing will often show me more than one node, a lower node at around 28.5 is very accurate at 1-200 yards I use that for fire forming, then again a node in the mid 29.6 range that does shoot extremely well even as tight as 1.433 at 600 if tuned well, however as distance increases the need for speed will become apparent to keep the groups together. Ah yes the high node’
To support my statement I’ll attach a sample of an initial ladder test using 1 shot per charge there are three areas identified to further test. After learning this I now concentrate on abbreviated tests of the upper nodes trying to get the optimum performance and repeatability.
A good goal for myself is 5 shots under 1 inch at 550 that lay flat on a consistent basis to do that I have to run a high node.
(Second ladder)
Shoot Small y’all
J
Good luck on your upcoming match, please report back.
Good luck on your upcoming match, please report back.
If I may add further input to clarify a lesser charge floundering at greater distance I'm not at all deeming or claiming "any" lesser charge will definitely flounder that would be false statement . What I mean by this point is example when I rough a platform in at 800 yards I will shoot a given ladder and find out where the ladder starts to shoot several tenths to the same point of impact & lack of vertical. usually with correct prep I will find a low velocity spot and a higher velocity window where it will lump 2 charge weights 1 tenth apart and on a special occasion 3 tenth total window where they crash tight in the same quadrant with out shifting or making a move. So from here I will move to 1000 yards and often the lowest part of this wading will fall short or flounder not just some lesser charge but a charge that was in the good at 800 with at least one other charge sometimes 2 will simply fall short. but I can build this same ladder at a lower window where multiples will share same quadrant as well but say 100 FPS slower but same thing as I step out to 1000 to verify my adjustments or document winner the lowest will fall short often , not a random lower charge but one that is apart of grouping with multiple others at earlier 800 yard distance. happy tuning everyone hope this helps folks understand what Im trying to share.If I may politely weigh back in, I shouldn’t have left you hanging and for that I apologize.
Rusty, Jet and Shawn are all accomplished long range shooters so when they tell me something about testing or tuning or make a suggestion on technic,I listen very carefully. (Thanks guys)
I’m not an expert by any means however (My) Rifle through testing will often show me more than one node, a lower node at around 28.5 is very accurate at 1-200 yards I use that for fire forming, then again a node in the mid 29.6 range that does shoot extremely well even as tight as 1.433 at 600 if tuned well, however as distance increases the need for speed will become apparent to keep the groups together. Ah yes the high node’
To support my statement I’ll attach a sample of an initial ladder test using 1 shot per charge there are three areas identified to further test. After learning this I now concentrate on abbreviated tests of the upper nodes trying to get the optimum performance and repeatability.
A good goal for myself is 5 shots under 1 inch at 550 that lay flat on a consistent basis to do that I have to run a high node.
(Second ladder)
Shoot Small y’all
J
If I may add further input to clarify a lesser charge floundering at greater distance I'm not at all deeming or claiming "any" lesser charge will definitely flounder that would be false statement . What I mean by this point is example when I rough a platform in at 800 yards I will shoot a given ladder and find out where the ladder starts to shoot several tenths to the same point of impact & lack of vertical. usually with correct prep I will find a low velocity spot and a higher velocity window where it will lump 2 charge weights 1 tenth apart and on a special occasion 3 tenth total window where they crash tight in the same quadrant with out shifting or making a move. So from here I will move to 1000 yards and often the lowest part of this wading will fall short or flounder not just some lesser charge but a charge that was in the good at 800 with at least one other charge sometimes 2 will simply fall short. but I can build this same ladder at a lower window where multiples will share same quadrant as well but say 100 FPS slower but same thing as I step out to 1000 to verify my adjustments or document winner the lowest will fall short often , not a random lower charge but one that is apart of grouping with multiple others at earlier 800 yard distance. happy tuning everyone hope this helps folks understand what Im trying to share.
Shawn Williams
What F/L Die are you using?
Try a Harrell’s FL Bushing Die..Redding Full length type S bushing . I was thinking of taking the bushing out . Sizing body , then neck size with the bushing in my Wilson neck sizing die. What do u think ?
I personally have in the past, but these days I do not fuss with loaded round run out...I haven’t got my bullet run out sorted out yet so I am anywhere from .002 to .006 runout . Im a machinist so I made a bushing with a .27 hole in it . Stick the round in up to the shoulder and apply a little pressure , bending the neck to adjust run out to maybe .002 . I know the correct way is to manage run out problems with the press . But it’s too late now . All 50 rounds are loaded and run out corrected to .002 . Just wondering if anybody else does this .
Jim winning at Deep Creek is a revolving door, lots of knowledge and skill on this firing line that's what makes it fun pushing each other off the relay thrown...Shawn
You’ll have to show that 1000 yard tune so I don’t get beat up to badly. I joined Deep Creek and got my card in mail today from Roger,
Looking forward to meeting the fellas.
Jim
Try a Harrell’s FL Bushing Die..
If it’s working for you and you don’t mind sizing in two steps all is well..Quick update ! I took out the neck bushing in the F/L die and sized the case . Put the bushing in my Wilson neck sizing die and sized the neck . PRESTO !
.001 fricken run out on 2 rounds in a row . I love it !!!!!!! No more straightening !!!!!!!!
View attachment 1102488 Hi Guys !
First ladder ever ! 300 yards , 6BR , 105 hybrid , Varget . A little windy ! All opinions encouraged and welcomed.
Thx
Mark