do new ladder ????

[Alex Wheeler]

Yes Donovan my good gun is on rl15 , the one I shot in the championship I used H4895/br4. The point of the ladder is to be sure you are in the middle of the node.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I don't understand the ladder test...Please splain it in detail...Somebody told me you shoot at one bull.....Seems to me you would get your shots a freaked up...

Jason Baney has an article on this site explaining it in detail. Google it and you'll find it.

 

[johara1]

Well explain to me why you can't find the middle of a "node" at 100 yds? I can find the middle of the window in seating depth and powder charge both up close. ……. jim

 

[savageshooter86]

Erik's 100 yrd develop thread is saying you can. Seems to work for a number of shooters

 

[dmoran]

Jim -

Try 3 powders and 3 bullets across a 3 grain window to each, from a caliber you have never used before.
How many rounds with your method are you going to shoot ringing it all out?
My way (ladder testing) I will have a darn good start to all the possible nodes for all 6 components in 60-rounds.

I have never been able to get 100yd results to hold true for me very well at long range. Something you have perfected that myself and many others haven't. Each to our own....

And I agree with Tom above... +1

D

 

[Erik Cortina]

Jim, it's just more obvious in fewer rounds out at distance. AND you can be more sloppy, and not worry about cronies. I imagine the only way to be sure with 100 yards is to get the ES down to near nothing. The problem still is seat depth, for me jam 99.9% of the time wins at 100. In my timber tunnel, jump nearly always prevails at 1k.

The biggest reason I like tuning at 1k is once there, I am sure.

Tom

At 100 yards you are testing the gun, at 1000 yards there are many more variables introduced that you never know what caused a flyer.

You can NOT be sloppy at any distance and expect good results.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The things you look for at 100 are different than what you look for at 1k. I agree with Tom, I have seen a bunch of guns shoot small up close only to have it open up at 1k, not just es. I have had it happen to me as well. I tested seating depth on my current barrel at 300, touch was the best, at 1k .020 off was the best. Seen it happen like that too many times for me to waste time up close. I have read the OCW/Erik thread I am not looking for 5" or 7" groups, if it wont put 5 under 3" consistently at 1k it aint gonna work.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Bullshit, I've seen a pile of guns shoot under 1/2 moa at 600 and fall on their asses at 1k. As in 15+ inches, all vertical, not conditions. Learn to read, what did I write after the comma?

Relax Tom. With that temper, no wonder you work up loads without cronies! <-- I really hope you see what I did there! ;D

 

[dkhunt14]

I agree with Tom. I built a Dasher a couple years ago. It would shoot well under 1/4 inch at 100 and some of the 5 shot groups were so small I didn't know how to measure them. It would shoot 15 shot strings with an ES of 2. A lot of times the 10 shot ES was 1. That load would never shoot under 16 inches at 1000. It went vertical. I used another load in it and the ES was 12 and the gun would shoot 5 to 7 inches with 10 shots at 1000. I have seen this with many guns over the years. Alex is right you have to be able to shoot 10 shots in the 4 inch range when conditions are good or you going to lose. Matt

 

[dmoran]

Eric -

I've seen ammo win in F-Class that wouldn't have a chance in 1000-BR. Two completely different animals....
A 5" water-line verses a 3" for 1000-BR is the primary reason. And if you want to set records, it better be 2" or less vertical in BR.

 

[johara1]

I have no trouble in agging 3" at 1000 but i sure won't take a 1/4 minute gun at a 100 and think by any means it's tuned, maybe a .1 minute with low ES. I've tried every powder in the Dasher with the exception of 203B but it's made on the same line but a different container as RL-15. We will see in two weeks if my old barrels holds up and i do test at 1000, last week end at the match. The agg was an 1" smaller than 48 others and i didn't ever do a ladder test……. ……. jim

 

[JamesnTN]

Not happy with ladder results .....

savage factory action
HS stock aluminum block no bedding
shot .350 -.550 with factory .308 barrel

New shilen 6mmbr .272 ss match barrel 1-8
new lug and nut from NSS

lapua norma 6mm brass blue box
.266 bushing
forster micro seater
105 hornaday match hpbt
varget
cci450s
.0015 neck tension
.010 0ff lands

VARGET
69 temp 1050ft above sea level 29.95 pressure no wind

100 YARDS
29.5g 3shot .700ish
30g 3shot .700 ish
30.5g 3shot .700
31g 3 shot .700
31.5g 3 shot .700
32g 3shot .400
wow not happy with groups all bad hit 32g an all of a sudden it groups.... primer looks same Not Flat at 32g but does have ridge around firepin hole that is not there on lighter loads .....

WOOD LIKE TO SHOOT LONGE RANGE 800 PLUS BUT WILL SHOOT ALOT OF 300YD
HELP PLEASE ....
DISCARD AND START NEW LADDER TEST ???
never hear guys running 32g of varget in there 6mmbr
should I go 29.5 down an look for a node ???? help

Either I've missed some info or I'm blind. Are you shooting a 6BR or a dasher? That 32 grn load is dasher territory and no way is a 6BR gonna take those pressures. Usually 29.0-29.5 is a good 6 BR load.

 

[cocopuff]

as some ask,if your shootin f class how can
a dasher be allowed...they say 223 or 308

only..whats the deal here?

 

[Erik Cortina]

as some ask,if your shootin f class how can
a dasher be allowed...they say 223 or 308

only..whats the deal here?

F-Class has two classes, T-T/R (.223 & .308) and F-Open (anything under .35 caliber goes).

 

[Steve Blair]

I have no trouble in agging 3" at 1000 but i sure won't take a 1/4 minute gun at a 100 and think by any means it's tuned, maybe a .1 minute with low ES. I've tried every powder in the Dasher with the exception of 203B but it's made on the same line but a different container as RL-15. We will see in two weeks if my old barrels holds up and i do test at 1000, last week end at the match. The agg was an 1" smaller than 48 others and i didn't ever do a ladder test……. ……. jim

[br]
But Jim, how can that be true? Just because you made an informed choice of barrel and twist, correctly prepared and assembled your components, tuned your load at 100 and obtained low ES figures; how can it possibly shoot well at 1000 without a ladder test? I read on the internet that you must do a ladder test and test only the range at which you will compete. :

 

[Old Navy]

Not happy with ladder results .....

savage factory action
HS stock aluminum block no bedding
shot .350 -.550 with factory .308 barrel

New shilen 6mmbr .272 ss match barrel 1-8
new lug and nut from NSS

lapua norma 6mm brass blue box
.266 bushing
forster micro seater
105 hornaday match hpbt
varget
cci450s
.0015 neck tension
.010 0ff lands

VARGET
69 temp 1050ft above sea level 29.95 pressure no wind

100 YARDS
29.5g 3shot .700ish
30g 3shot .700 ish
30.5g 3shot .700
31g 3 shot .700
31.5g 3 shot .700
32g 3shot .400
wow not happy with groups all bad hit 32g an all of a sudden it groups.... primer looks same Not Flat at 32g but does have ridge around firepin hole that is not there on lighter loads .....

WOOD LIKE TO SHOOT LONGE RANGE 800 PLUS BUT WILL SHOOT ALOT OF 300YD
HELP PLEASE ....
DISCARD AND START NEW LADDER TEST ???
never hear guys running 32g of varget in there 6mmbr
should I go 29.5 down an look for a node ???? help

That is the only bullet in that weight range that I could not get to shoot in my last BRX barrel. I tried ever trick I learned on this forum to no avail. Later! Frank

 

[johara1]

Steve, I base my loads and equipment on the most controlled conditions i can get at 100 yds.. Even though i am using the same loads from last year i still go up and down on powder and in and out on seating depth and go to different neck tension. I don't want to leave anything on the table….. I had scope problems this year but that is behind me, and it proved it out on the last match.
I don't believe in ladder test, nor do i believe in mid or long range tuning but it is called a cone of dispersion and it will be at it's smallest at 100 yds. If i have a .1 or less gun i should be able to tune at 1" or less at 1000 and enhance it from there if all the tuning at 1000 and ladder test work. They can't because of the unseen conditions affecting you group. So i will guess i will muddle along with my out dated way of doing things…….. jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have no trouble in agging 3" at 1000 but i sure won't take a 1/4 minute gun at a 100 and think by any means it's tuned, maybe a .1 minute with low ES. I've tried every powder in the Dasher with the exception of 203B but it's made on the same line but a different container as RL-15. We will see in two weeks if my old barrels holds up and i do test at 1000, last week end at the match. The agg was an 1" smaller than 48 others and i didn't ever do a ladder test……. ……. jim

[br]
But Jim, how can that be true? Just because you made an informed choice of barrel and twist, correctly prepared and assembled your components, tuned your load at 100 and obtained low ES figures; how can it possibly shoot well at 1000 without a ladder test? I read on the internet that you must do a ladder test and test only the range at which you will compete. :

Where did you read that?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Jim, the ladders we do are just 3 shot groups fired at the same point of aim. It just gives you the extra data of seeing the impact relative to other charges. I will usually test 3-4 charges so I am running a 9 or 12 shot group in a calm condition. Its very easy to seem small changes like .1 gr or .001 nt. If guys can run a 3-4" 10 shot group in a relay, then I feel good about a 9-12 shot group at 6am when it really calm.

 

[johara1]

Alex, My point is if you can't see a 1MPH. wind change and that will move your group inches how can take the results of a ladder test or a test group at 1000 yds and use it as a valid tune.
Tom, I did agg. 2" at the Va. match last year and it did agg. 5.5 " for 10 shot groups for 6 match agg, all tuned at 100 yds………… jim